Is Astoria facing urban deterioration?

[Gleason]

Thought it would be interesting to get astorians reaction to this letter sent to a local paper:

http://www.timesledger.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18529326&BRD=2676&PAG=461&dept_id=542861&rfi=6
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06/28/2007

Four clues your community is facing urban deterioration

As a lifelong New Yorker, I have seen many neighborhoods disintegrate. The answer to urban blight in the Bloomberg-era is gentrification, but that is no solution for most people. The solution is to get out before it is too late.

Based on my experience, I have identified four sure signs that a neighborhood is on its way to destruction. Here they are:

1. There is population instability. Moving vans and do-it-yourself truck rentals clog the streets. You seldom recognize anyone who lives in your neighborhood because folks are constantly moving in and out. Renters outnumber owners, and few people seem to have a stake in the place, or want to establish roots there. Landlords start renting to people who are unlikely to stay very long, because they want to re-rent the property for more money. People who buy property are already thinking of selling it for a profit.

2. There is a proliferation of fast food, all-night delis and convenience stores. This connects to population instability, because establishments that cater to spur-of-the-moment eating and shopping habits cater to people who lack a stable family structure. Where there are intact families, there are everyday rituals and set times for doing things.

3. There is a crumbling infrastructure. The roads and streets and sidewalks go into disrepair, mostly from overuse, but no one cares enough to complain. Since so few people consider the place their permanent home, they see themselves as just passing through, and as a result, nothing gets fixed. If you spot a forever-broken traffic light in a heavily travelled area such as the one on 23rd Avenue, things can only get worse.

4. Quality of life issues are ignored. When you start to see graffiti, broken windows, crumbling buildings, litter on the streets, and a general atmosphere of filth, noise and slop, and the local authorities are not flooded with complaints from angry citizens, crime and mayhem soon follow.

Of course, it would be a noble thing to stay and fight for what was once a charming neighborhood, but to do that, you would have to find like-minded folks who cared enough.

And how can you do that when nobody knows who their neighbors are, or even wants to know?

John Borrillo

[DogBert]

Whining. When I was born 33 years ago, everyone was predicting astoria would go to hell. I'm still waiting. (though I sure do hope con ed actually did some good work on the grid...)

[neo11]

I think a lot of it just has to do with your specific location.  I used to live right by the corner of Ditmars and Crescent up until a few years ago.  I can say that living there was no fun.  The deli on the other corner was usually open 24-7, especially during the warm weather months, and that attracted all sorts of losers who would go to the park to booze up at night.  Many of them were drunk/on drugs, and I can recall several different incidents where there were fights, broken glass, shouting matches, and police being called.  One specific incident had one drunken group of guys stop at the deli to go after another drunken group that was there with metal pipes, breaking several car windows along the way and beating this one guy to a bloody pulp.

Then, with the bars across the street, people standing outside chatting and smoking at 3 in the morning was getting annoying if you were trying to fall asleep just across the street.  Ditto the car service that was there, whose drivers would sit outside and chat all night, leave their cars double parked for hours, knock off mirrors from cars from not parking carefully, etc.

The high school across the street was a real mess too.  I once saw two students from there actually shoplift some cakes from the deli one morning and walk out.  There were also a few occasions where there would actually be fights in the middle of the street.

For about a year or so, there was also this really shady "nightclub" that operated under the cover of darkness, on Crescent next to the car service.  Police busted that one up finally one night, and it later became a music school.

Plus, hearing the deafening roar of motorcycles zipping past to get to Astoria Park, and all sorts of morons who would stop at the deli or pizzeria and leave their sound systems blasting in their cars made the whole scene unbearable.

And yet, if one went just half a block down Crescent, you would have none of those problems.  So it really just depends on specific location.  Fortunately for me, I'm no longer living at that crazy intersection.

[Hardkore]

I think a lot of it just has to do with your specific location.  I used to live right by the corner of Ditmars and Crescent up until a few years ago.  I can say that living there was no fun. 

Wow. I live right there and had and continue to have the complete opposite experience (ala what you mentioned about half a block up). But I have never experienced any of what you speak about- so much has changed!

[Starwind51]

Every few years things get bad for a while.  About 10 years ago, in summer, a-holes would sit on the benches, break beer bottles, and get in drunken fights.  Calls to the police did nothing.  I don't know what happened, it just seemed to stop.  One winter the drug dealer living with the chronically drunk mentally ill woman on the first floor of my building would blast their music system to all hours and we had to sleep with ac on to drown it out.  Then he realized that if he stopped doing that the police would stop showing up at his door.  The housing authority was finally able to get her out of the building, and there he went, too, but it took long enough.

[Christine]

Why, yes. Astoria is definitely full of crime, graffiti, noise, lack of electricity and all kinds of derilects. That's why it's a thoroughly undesireable place to live. Plus, the rents keep going up. I say we need to publish MORE stories about it! Because a few years ago, when some community marketing guru told all those lies about how cool it is, rents began to climb and all those condos started being built.

It's about time the truth was exposed and the rent prices adjusted accordingly 

[lobber]

  terrble place

[RoverNYC]

Absolutely! Let's expose the truth! Especially to anyone who owns a single-family home. Those are the people who should sell and sell quickly, (and let me know first!)

[Debbie]

The fact that this blog exists is proof that Astoria rocks!!!  I don't know what this person is going on about.  Everyone knows everyone and even the people who participate on Astorians.com try to meet each other.  I know so many more people here than when I lived in Manhattan in between my Astoria stints.  The problems this person is referring to, like graffiti and motorcycles were WORSE years ago, and you would never enter Astoria Park if you could help it.  Drugs and low lifes were all over Astoria.  That's how I remember it.  It is MUCH better now, and great people are moving into the area.  I say, keep them coming!!!

[jayme]

You know, really, I wanted to think this urban decay/over development/exploding population crisis was silly nonsense when I first saw it a few years ago -- and I made a practice to avoid these threads.  Honestly though, I can't dismiss it without a second though now.  While the influx of new folks is perhaps not the root of all evil -- and neither are a few new buildings or a few new "Astoria amenities", the collective impact of the rise in popularity of Astoria as a place to live and the lack of support (utility/electric/transportation) is a not-pretty trend.  Infill housing is popping up (the uglification) on formerly single and two family home blocks, condo conversions, increasing rents...  it's a questionable change. 

On the one hand the existence of this board does suggest that there is a greater feel of community -- but on the other, it also is evidence of change in population demographic for Astoria.  Community establishments close (Keystone - 25 years?) in the blink of an eye to give rise to "new" and in-demand spots (vegan healthfood?) that can afford the increasing rents but might not have the long term staying power.  I've cheered for the change (vegan healthfood!  in Astoria!) because I really do want to see Astoria grow and I'm excited to support these new neighborhood businesses.  But that's just it -- "new neighborhood" means something is happening to distinguish it from the old.

I don't have any clear ideas really one way or the other yet.  All I know is I'm not dismissing the crazy urban decay talk offhand.

[John b]

It's great that so many people responded to my letter. It means I'm actually saying something, as opposed to merely offering a report on my emotional state or why I feel so good about living in the big City. Let's start by getting a few things out of the way. First, I love Astoria, or what's left of it, and that's why I bother to write. I want people to see what I see and I want to see some of these trends reversed.
I'm aware that there are lots of twentysomethings with college degrees using the place as a dorm room and the fact that it's so close to Manhattan means that they think they're in paradise. But a community should never be defined by how close it is to someplace else; it needs to have its own character. People shouldn't confuse nostalgia with historical memory:  It really was a much better place years ago.

[lizluv43]

Astoria is going down hill so homeowners, before the value of your property devaluates or gets destroyed by gang members SELL SELL SELL, especially those of you that have been there for 30 years and only paid $25,000.00 for your home...sell it for $200,000, you're still making a profit but most importantly...saving your lives!

Horrible place to live, people should start moving out and renting elsewhere!

 

[Frappe]

But a community should never be defined by how close it is to someplace else

Every locale on the entire eastern seaboard is probably defined by their approximation to about a dozen urban focal points.  That is just the nature of the urban organism.  Astoria has always been and shall most likely always be defined by its proximity to Manhattan.  Its very unrealistic to think otherwise.

I appreciate your letter, but I cannot agree with it at all.  It sounds less like an impassioned remark about the true possible decay of a neighborhood and more like a paternal remonstrance of a cherished neighborhood changing into something a bit more foreign and unfamiliar. 

[John b]

People really should stop taking  so many undergrad. Psychology courses.

[Pinnochio]

why are you bitter towards people with a college education?