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Author Topic: Photo buffs  (Read 8413 times)

vcapetanos

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Photo buffs
« on: August 21, 2006, 04:28:45 PM »
Forgive me, it's monday and i'm stuck on stupid. It's been about 10 yrs since I have processed my own b+w film, but I have recently decided to start getting back into photography. (Like most ppl, I took b+w in school). I never payed (or is it paid?) close attention to it when I was in school so I was hoping someone here could tell me what the processing differences are. I am familar with b+w, but have no clue about color.

I've started to gather up darkroom supplies, but was curious to know if you can process color film at home too?

Thx,
V.

ZiP!

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2006, 05:26:18 PM »
I've been shooting only digital recently - but I think it's super expensive to process + make prints of color stuff in the darkroom.  I could be mistaken though.

ZiP!

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2006, 05:53:13 PM »
I think it requires lots more chemicals.

Quote
Minilabs have taken the fun (if there ever was any) out of color printing. If you only shoot in color, it may make more sense to find a reliable lab and let them do the hard work. But Black-and-white is a different story. Black and white, because of its relative ease of processing, is easier to control; as a result, many darkroom enthusiasts are able to make interpretive prints that say more than any machine print can say.

taken from here: http://www.photogs.com/bwworld/bwdarkrm1.html

Offline Harlan

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2006, 06:09:35 PM »
And I think you have to precisely control temperature of the water bath too...

Incidentally, for B&W, with a digital camera, you can take a color photo then in Picasa/iPhoto/photoshop you can desaturate the color. At least in Picasa, you can pretend you took the photo with any number of filters, which changes the effect a lot. This is a much better thing to do then to set your camera to B&W mode... Here's one of mine I did that with:


vcapetanos

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2006, 06:17:31 PM »

vcapetanos

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2006, 06:20:36 PM »
And I think you have to precisely control temperature of the water bath too...

Incidentally, for B&W, with a digital camera, you can take a color photo then in Picasa/iPhoto/photoshop you can desaturate the color. At least in Picasa, you can pretend you took the photo with any number of filters, which changes the effect a lot. This is a much better thing to do then to set your camera to B&W mode... Here's one of mine I did that with:



To be honest, I have never used any imaging program(s) with any of my digital photos. I don't have the patience or know how for them - mainly the latter.

Teach me, obi wan?

vcapetanos

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2006, 06:23:05 PM »
I think that the photo ppl around here should get together, share our fav photos (and techniques) and what not - but that's just my $.02.

Offline Harlan

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2006, 06:50:19 PM »
To be honest, I have never used any imaging program(s) with any of my digital photos. I don't have the patience or know how for them - mainly the latter.

Teach me, obi wan?

Listen well, Grasshopperanos...

Do you have a Mac or a PC? I don't know the Mac software, but I understand that iPhoto's pretty good. For a PC, run do not walk to http://picasa.google.com/ and download a copy of Picasa. It's an easy piece of software to use just as soon as you figure out how the photo library works. Basically, you "import" photo images into the program, then categorize them with tags and labels and things. Forget about "folders", those are the old way of organizing things! Search is the new way. Also, Picasa stores all sorts of information about the files (tags, edits), and lets you see the results, but doesn't actually ever physically change the underlying photo file. If you want to do something with the file (upload, whatever), you have to export the file to a new image file. It's easy to import files from a camera or memory card.

To do the filtered B&W thing, click on an imported image, go to "Effects", then select "Filtered B&W". Then click "Pick Color" and run your mouse over the colors and see how different each virtual filter is on the final image... Cool, eh?

You can do cool things with Photoshop/Gimp, but these are much more challenging to learn than something like Picasa. For example, I did this in Gimp, keeping the sculpture in color (and tweaking the color a little to make it a richer brown), and desaturating everything else. I do wish I hadn't clipped the right edge of the sculpture when I was taking the picture...!





[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline mirki2

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2006, 07:11:25 PM »
what I love about photoshop is the layering...
seek peace and pursue it.

ZiP!

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2006, 08:08:44 PM »
i could talk photography for days :)

vcapetanos

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2006, 08:37:46 AM »
Listen well, Grasshopperanos...

Do you have a Mac or a PC? I don't know the Mac software, but I understand that iPhoto's pretty good. For a PC, run do not walk to http://picasa.google.com/ and download a copy of Picasa. It's an easy piece of software to use just as soon as you figure out how the photo library works. Basically, you "import" photo images into the program, then categorize them with tags and labels and things. Forget about "folders", those are the old way of organizing things! Search is the new way. Also, Picasa stores all sorts of information about the files (tags, edits), and lets you see the results, but doesn't actually ever physically change the underlying photo file. If you want to do something with the file (upload, whatever), you have to export the file to a new image file. It's easy to import files from a camera or memory card.

To do the filtered B&W thing, click on an imported image, go to "Effects", then select "Filtered B&W". Then click "Pick Color" and run your mouse over the colors and see how different each virtual filter is on the final image... Cool, eh?

You can do cool things with Photoshop/Gimp, but these are much more challenging to learn than something like Picasa. For example, I did this in Gimp, keeping the sculpture in color (and tweaking the color a little to make it a richer brown), and desaturating everything else. I do wish I hadn't clipped the right edge of the sculpture when I was taking the picture...!





I've had picasa for some time now and hardly use it. I mainly use the software that came with my kodak digital for cropping and such. I'll give Picasa a try tonight though and see how I fare. Thanks for the tips!

V.

vcapetanos

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2006, 08:38:38 AM »
i could talk photography for days :)

I'm all ears and sponge.  :-D

Newtownian

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2006, 10:24:48 AM »
I wrote a whole big thing about film vs. digital and it was lost in the crossover..

Summary: hp5+, fp4, tmax, t100 = awesome bw film. Do it at home or at printspace. comes out waaay better than digital desaturated. xp2 super is a film that is developed using color chemical (c41). Very nice. For a purist, not as good as bw film with bw chems.

Color film sucks. Not as clean as digital. You need to keep the chems at a high temp to process correctly. it's even worse if you take it to the 1 hour place

Color Tranparency is nice. e-6 chemicals to develop.. Take to a reputable lab to develop. or use to crossprocess (use c-41) but it will ruin everyone elses film if you take it to the 1 hour place.

Go to flickr an look up hp5, fp4, tmax, t100, xp2 super, e6, c41 and cross process.

Offline Harlan

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2006, 10:36:00 AM »
Ah, bummer you lost the post! Looks like it would have been good stuff...

I've used that color-process BW film and got some pretty good photos, but I don't have a film camera any more.

Any tips for those of us who have moved to digital and want to desaturate as best we can? What's the big difference between BW film and desaturated color? Is it the particular wavelengths that BW film is sensitive too (which could be simulated by filters)? Is it the increased contrast (which could be simulated by playing with level curves)?


I wrote a whole big thing about film vs. digital and it was lost in the crossover..

Summary: hp5+, fp4, tmax, t100 = awesome bw film. Do it at home or at printspace. comes out waaay better than digital desaturated. xp2 super is a film that is developed using color chemical (c41). Very nice. For a purist, not as good as bw film with bw chems.

Color film sucks. Not as clean as digital. You need to keep the chems at a high temp to process correctly. it's even worse if you take it to the 1 hour place

Color Tranparency is nice. e-6 chemicals to develop.. Take to a reputable lab to develop. or use to crossprocess (use c-41) but it will ruin everyone elses film if you take it to the 1 hour place.

Go to flickr an look up hp5, fp4, tmax, t100, xp2 super, e6, c41 and cross process.


Offline NYCMacUser

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2006, 10:42:30 AM »
Go to flickr an look up hp5, fp4, tmax, t100, xp2 super, e6, c41 and cross process.
WTF!

You gotta be careful, Newtownian, there may be children or old people viewing this site. A little less foul language, please. :-D

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Offline firelight79

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2006, 10:45:57 AM »
you will have to pry black and white film out of my cold dead hands before i give it up...
well, if its no longer manufactured, i'm out of luck. i should start stocking up...

anyway, i much prefer to develop actual prints from actual film. i haven't been able to get access to a darkroom in a while, but i am thinking of stretching my alumni privilidges and using the darkroom at fordham when it reopens (they started closing it for the summer...punks...). i have a lot of prints to make since my portfolio is hopelessly out of date. and my skills are probably starting to wane...

i just can't seem to adapt to digital...i feel like i have less control than with big bertha (my SLR)

i also like the idea of an astorian photog group gathering...

Newtownian

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2006, 11:23:52 AM »
my bad... lemme 'slpain. 

Kodak makes different film Kodak Royal gold is that drivel you find in the drugstore. T-max and t-100 is black and white film that is processed with different chemicals.

Ilford is another company, they make B/w films. HP5+, FP4 and XP2 super are some of the films they make. Each have different properites. You can't develop these at the local 1 hour place. They use different chemicals than the color film you are used to.

I think the biggest difference is in the textures in the mid-tones. Also, there are highlights and shadows.  Film has a greater tonal range than digital so you lose less detail in those areas.

Disclaimer: My photography experience has come from shooting a lot of film and digital pictures. Also, a whole bunch of surfing on Photo.net

Offline lanseaux

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2006, 11:40:50 AM »
i just can't seem to adapt to digital...i feel like i have less control than with big bertha (my SLR)

Have you experimented at all with a digital SLR?  I use a Canon 20D for both day-to-day shooting and the semi-professional stuff I've done.  I still have a couple of film bodies, but I have found I just don't use them anymore....

I haven't done my own developing since college - so more than 15 years.  I only ever developed b&w, though. 

I guess the one thing I miss about film is b&w.  I did almost exclusively b&w in college, and I would agree that desaturating doesn't do the exact same thing - of course, it may not bother you.  Much of it is a matter of tradition and preference, IMHO.

flooz

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2006, 12:30:36 PM »
theres a cool group of astorian picture takers on flickr
http://flickr.com/groups/astoria/

Offline firelight79

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2006, 12:47:36 PM »
Have you experimented at all with a digital SLR?  I use a Canon 20D for both day-to-day shooting and the semi-professional stuff I've done.  I still have a couple of film bodies, but I have found I just don't use them anymore....

i'd love to, but those suckers are expensive. maybe santa will be nice to me this year.  :-D
i have a really crappy point and shoot digital. i miss the lens mostly. and not having to wait for it to focus and then decide that the good focus it just had is not as good as the blurry image it decided to stop on. but like i said, my cam is crap.
i really like to spend time in the darkroom and play around with the image.
i'm going to check out this picassa (?) thing and see how that works out.

flooz-i'm going to check out that link too, thanks!

Newtownian

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2006, 01:08:06 PM »
I think for about 150 bucks you can get yourself a nice little set up going.

You can find a Canon Rebel G or Ti on ebay for less than 100 bucks. Then pick up a 50mm f/1.8 lens from adorama and you should be set to go. Remember it's the lens, not always the body! BTW, while you're down there you can pick up some film. HP5+ is usually a good film to start with. Just get good with that one and then you can try experimenting with other stuff.. Consistency is key. Did you buy your chemistry yet? Most of this stuff you can do in the bathroom. Just don't throw the fixer down the drain.

http://www3.telus.net/drkrm/filmdev.htm

This is a pretty good link to give you an Idea of what you need to do. Good luck!

vcapetanos

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2006, 01:16:26 PM »
Did you buy your chemistry yet? Most of this stuff you can do in the bathroom. Just don't throw the fixer down the drain.

Bathroom, eh? I have the chems, but still need an enlarger. I'd be a little hesitant to use my bathroom considering my cats (for some strange reason) prefer to drink from the shower than their own water bowl.

Newtownian

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2006, 01:22:32 PM »
Dump the developer down the sink and pour the fixer into a large pickle jar. When the fixer is spent you can take it to the 1 hr photo and they will dispose of it properly.  The cat's will never get a whiff of it. Of course keep the window open!

BTW, the stuff the fixed clears out is Silver. If you put a ball of steel wool in pickle jar the silver will "cling" to the steel wool and you can reuse the fixer. I would just use the fixer a couple of times and take it to the Photo store.

vcapetanos

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2006, 01:26:38 PM »
Dump the developer down the sink and pour the fixer into a large pickle jar.

Does it have to be a pickle jar?  :-P

Newtownian

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2006, 01:49:41 PM »
of course not!

vcapetanos

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2006, 02:08:22 PM »
I was being slightly sarcastic, but thank you very much for the tips! I appreciate it. =)

Newtownian

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2006, 02:32:55 PM »
Hey... you never know!  ;D

vcapetanos

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2006, 02:43:29 PM »
Very true!

I would have been eating pickles all week!!  ;D

do you know a good site or place to pick up used darkroom supplies - mainly an enlarger?

Newtownian

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2006, 03:18:31 PM »
Hmm.. try www.keh.com or sometimes adorama has stuff. I bought paper there and get my digital pics developed there. There's always ebay. But I think you get slammed with shipping. Photo.net and rangefinderfourm.com have classifieds that might be helpful.. But you have to jump on those rather quickly. As more and more people go digital, more and more darkrooms go up for sale.. I saw a bessler enlarger for 50 bucks once or craigslist, but that was a while back. Good luck with your darkroom/bathroom!

Offline firelight79

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2006, 05:08:46 PM »
I saw a bessler enlarger for 50 bucks once or craigslist, but that was a while back. Good luck with your darkroom/bathroom!
seriously?
i need to check CL more often.
now that i stopped trolling the personals i don't hit that site so much.
i'm the same with having the chemicals but needing an enlarger. i would love to have a home darkroom set up.

vcapetanos

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2006, 11:24:20 PM »
i would love to have a home darkroom set up.

lol. first person to get an enlarger shares! I have a bid on ebay now for an enlarger. it ends on saturday, but i've been outbidded by $.50 - i'll wait till then to make my move.

Offline Alison

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2006, 02:09:04 PM »
I've kinda just skimmed this thread (been outta town for a few days, so much to catch up on!) , but I'm going into my 4th year as a photography major, so I might have a few thoughts on this, or can be of help :)

If you've decided to shoot color at all, don't even think about processing it yourself - nobody does. They don't even teach you how to develop color film in school. Before I learned anything about color, I once asked a photographer if he processes his own color film, and he looked at me like I was insane and said, "oh no! It's way too toxic, I wouldn't even try." So color chemicals don't mix well with people, apparently.

I don't know if there are any decent pro-color labs in Astoria, but I've used both Manhattan Color (on 19th or 20th just west of 5th Ave., south side of street), and CRC (22nd somewhere around Broadway, south side of street). If you're a student, both places offer a discount. Duggal (I think they're on Broadway, but you can look them up) is also really good, but they're a bit pricier. Don't bring them to a drugstore or one-hour place - technically its the same process, chemicals and similar machines, but as one of my instructors once said, they don't give a [bleep] about your film. You'll get good negatives from good handling. Also, most of those pro-color labs will have your negatives done within a couple hours unless they're super busy, and it's a few bucks per roll (not sure how much prints are, I never get them because I just make contact sheets at school).

Oh, one more thing! If you process B&W film in your bathroom, run a really hot shower for a few minutes before you go in and steam it up. When the steam settles, it'll bring down all the dust in the air too, so not nearly as much will stick to your negatives when they're drying. Also, obviously, leave the door closed when they're drying, so no dust from the rest of your place will fly in. (I've never tried this, as I process all my B&W film at school, but another teacher suggested that :) )

Also, I second (third? fourth?) the suggestion of saving your used fixer and having it disposed of properly - that stuff is pure evil for the water supply! They do make a solution (I forget what it is called) with an eyedropper type thing, and you put one drop into your used fixer. If it turns milky, then it means the fixer is tired and you should dispose of it. If it stays clear, the fixer is still good/useable. Never heard of the steel wool suggestion, but its worth a try (although, I'd get those drops and test it after just to make sure). Oh, and for stop bath, Kodak makes an indicator stop bath that turns purple when its exhausted, so you can reuse that as well (although the undiluted stuff is super potent, I don't suggest smelling it  :roll: )

Oh, and places to buy stuff - I like Adorama when its not busy, and K&M on 23rd between 1st & 2nd is good as well, and usually not busy - although don't go to either place the first couple weeks of September - school is back and all the freshmen at SVA & other art schools mob those places.

Ummmm...what else? I had some other thoughts, but I forgot them. I'm sure I'll be back to this thread soon :)

Oh! Also, one more thing before I go - I actually have a developing tank and some unopened chemistry (t-max developer, indicator stop bath, and fixer) at my parents house if you want it - I'll never use it, and I hate that it'll just go to waste...you can have it if you promise to use it! :) My email is in my profile.
What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?

Offline Harlan

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2006, 02:22:49 PM »
Slightly off the topic of chemicals... Does anyone have suggestions for good (ideally cheap or free) photo exhibits or galleries or shows?

Offline photomill

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2006, 04:42:55 PM »
just asn FYI as someone that used to work at a 1hr photo lab - do not ever ever ever atempt to print color at home!  danger will robinson - the chemicals can be everything from mutagenic to diaretic!  stay away.

b&w is nasty enough - just watch how/where you rid yourself of your expired chemicals!

duluoz_cats

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hockneyizer
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2006, 08:45:06 AM »
Clever little thing:

hockneyizer

Offline NYCMacUser

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2006, 09:06:05 AM »
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until we are in hot water! â€”Eleanor Roosevelt

Offline mirki2

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Re: hockneyizer
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2006, 09:39:44 AM »
Clever little thing:

hockneyizer

oooh, this is fun! thanks duluoz.
seek peace and pursue it.

Offline mirki2

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2006, 09:42:46 AM »
this one's fun as well:

mosaic
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Offline Jonathan

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2006, 09:44:19 AM »
Duluoz, that is pretty cool.  I loved the collages we saw at a recent exhibit in Boston.  Made youi want to run out and buy a cheap polaroid and start shooting.

Offline mirki2

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Re: Photo buffs
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2006, 11:24:02 AM »
Picasa also has a collage option, btw
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