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Author Topic: DADT  (Read 9354 times)

Offline kempsternyc

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DADT
« on: September 21, 2010, 10:23:47 PM »
I hope you don't mind if I take some time to write about this issue. Right now, I am very sad and need to put these words down somewhere on the internet. I'm not sure why....it just feels right.

I served my country for 7 years. When I first signed up in 1984, I came across the question on my application asking if I had ever engaged in homosexual activity. I answered no. Even though I knew then it was a lie. The reason why is this....I was escaping from my home. I didn't know what to expect....but I knew I wanted to get away. And I wasn't going to let that question get in my way of leaving home. I had to get away.

During my time in the Army, I always had that hanging on my neck. And a few times, when I forgot about that albatross, I let the cat out of the bag. And it resulted in situations that were difficult.

The thing is, for me, I was happy to be in the Army. I have so many great memories that live with me to this day. I worked my as off and enjoyed it.

And also, from the depths of my soul, the Army gave me the foundation to be a man. It gave me structure.....it gave me strength. I am who I am today because of the Army. I have been in a supervisory role with Barnes and Noble since the day I got out of the Army and got a civilian job because of the Army. I could not have done it without them.

But now I must tell you of a moment that caused me much pain. One night, I got really drunk and.....well, you can guess. Word got out and a few weeks later, I was having lunch in the mess hall when I overheard two guys talking about kicking my ass because I was gay. This is not something I wanted or planned.

 I never ate in that mess hall again for two years. I ate at the PX diner.

I have never thought of repealing DADT as allowing orgies in the showers. For me it is this, Giving the soldiers, such as me, the guidelines to be all we can be....and no that is not silly to me. I had a great experiance. But, I did not have the guidelines to make it work. Gay people do not go into the Army to have sex. We do it for many reasons. Pride in our country or lack of a job or whatever.

I know this is difficult in some ways. But for me it is this......

Laying out the rules to allow me to do my job. Maybe I would have met a fellow soldier and we woud have fallen in love with each other. But we would have been able to do our job.....because we knew the rules. I think today about a video on youtube of a gay couple getting married and everyone in the Regiment being there.....crossed swords as they walked down the aisle.....In Great Britain.

Yeah, I get that some see it as wierd.

But today, as the Senate voted.....

I felt like a non human.

I served my country....

For seven years.

With honor.

My being gay.......

If the Army had have given me the guidelines, it would have been so different.....instead, I felt different. And I don,t think I should have been forced to.

I am gay...but I am an American. And I was a soldier in the Army. For seven years. And I am proud of that. I am so effing proud of that. More than you can ever know.

« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 10:34:40 PM by kempsternyc »
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Offline JoeyC

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Re: DADT
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2010, 11:14:12 PM »
"". Maybe I would have met a fellow soldier and we woud have fallen in love with each other. But""

That's one thing they don't want.  It's the military, and in combat that can be a problem. Also straight guys don't want to sleep in close quarters with gay guys.   It would cause so many problems, just to satisfy one group.  You were there7 years, it could not have been that bad, you are well, and fine, and living your life happily. 

Offline JoeyC

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Re: DADT
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2010, 11:16:14 PM »
""""In Delaware, There is one who considers my masturbation a sin. As I think of hairy sweaty balls.....while watching porn......jerking off to porn.

Oh you poor child..... you want to be a Senator based on a study  of my masturbation habits......

That is your platform?

Well, I guess it is time to put in my disc of hairy ass men.....and watch them stroke and slam each other as I watch you lose an election while I masterbate. """


Kempster, this is what you said few days ago on here. It would not go over well in barracks. 





Offline kempsternyc

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Re: DADT
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2010, 01:08:53 AM »
""""In Delaware, There is one who considers my masturbation a sin. As I think of hairy sweaty balls.....while watching porn......jerking off to porn.

Oh you poor child..... you want to be a Senator based on a study  of my masturbation habits......

That is your platform?

Well, I guess it is time to put in my disc of hairy ass men.....and watch them stroke and slam each other as I watch you lose an election while I masterbate. """


Kempster, this is what you said few days ago on here. It would not go over well in barracks. 






I was joking a few days ago.....tonight i wasn't....tonight this was from the depth of my soul.....didn't you get that?????
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 01:13:54 AM by kempsternyc »
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Offline kempsternyc

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Re: DADT
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2010, 01:10:31 AM »
"". Maybe I would have met a fellow soldier and we woud have fallen in love with each other. But""

That's one thing they don't want.  It's the military, and in combat that can be a problem. Also straight guys don't want to sleep in close quarters with gay guys.   It would cause so many problems, just to satisfy one group.  You were there7 years, it could not have been that bad, you are well, and fine, and living your life happily. 

How do you know what they don't want?
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Offline odenhal

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Re: DADT
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2010, 09:46:31 AM »
As a fellow army vet, ODENHAL will say this, i do not care about someones sexual preference, now maybe the fact that ODENHAL was born and raised in N.Y.C.  had made ODENHAL more tolerant towards that than someone that was raised in lets say......Iowa...probably true. but in my basic training unit C-6-2 T.R.A.D.O.C  at FT Jackson , we had 2 gay privates in my platoon, and none of us gave a s%*t,

if you are willing to serve, ready to put your life on the line,ODENHALwill have no problem serving with you next to me

ODENHAL says don't ask don't tell should be repealed
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Offline Mer

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Re: DADT
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2010, 05:58:29 PM »
""""In Delaware, There is one who considers my masturbation a sin. As I think of hairy sweaty balls.....while watching porn......jerking off to porn.

Oh you poor child..... you want to be a Senator based on a study  of my masturbation habits......

That is your platform?

Well, I guess it is time to put in my disc of hairy ass men.....and watch them stroke and slam each other as I watch you lose an election while I masterbate. """


Kempster, this is what you said few days ago on here. It would not go over well in barracks. 







What the f___!

That is a straight-out out-of-context attack on another poster.

Shame on you!

Offline AJTNYC

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Re: DADT
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2010, 09:40:48 PM »
""""In Delaware, There is one who considers my masturbation a sin. As I think of hairy sweaty balls.....while watching porn......jerking off to porn.

Oh you poor child..... you want to be a Senator based on a study  of my masturbation habits......

That is your platform?

Well, I guess it is time to put in my disc of hairy ass men.....and watch them stroke and slam each other as I watch you lose an election while I masterbate. """


Kempster, this is what you said few days ago on here. It would not go over well in barracks. 



Personally I think he would have been the belle of the ball but Mer is right...totally out of context.  Get it together!  *Z snap-salute*

Offline JoeyC

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Re: DADT
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2010, 10:23:14 PM »

What the f___!

That is a straight-out out-of-context attack on another poster.

Shame on you!

No, shame on you for exxagerating. I did not attack him, Hell, I didn't even neg nod him.  I put up what he posted, and said, rightfully, that things like that won't  go over well at all.  You're just looking to jump on bandwagon here, so screw you.  It's also second time you have thrown insults my way on somehting you disagree with.   So ashame on you, fool.

Offline JoeyC

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Re: DADT
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2010, 10:42:55 PM »
Personally I think he would have been the belle of the ball but Mer is right...totally out of context.  Get it together!  *Z snap-salute*

I got it together fine. 

'Belle of the Ball"     is not something army needs.  I also don't see Kemp as Belle of ball type.   

Offline AJTNYC

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Re: DADT
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2010, 10:47:47 PM »
I got it together fine. 

'Belle of the Ball"     is not something army needs.  I also don't see Kemp as Belle of ball type.   

Whether it's the Belle of the Ball or Rambo, if anyone breathing is willing to serve this country and put their life at risk then it's definitely something the army and this country needs.  I'll deal with the rest of your commentary in PM.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 10:55:00 PM by AJTNYC »

Offline JoeyC

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Re: DADT
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2010, 11:12:26 PM »
Whether it's the Belle of the Ball or Rambo, if anyone breathing is willing to serve this country and put their life at risk then it's definitely something the army and this country needs.  I'll deal with the rest of your commentary in PM.

Majority of soldiers are against it.   I have friends and aquantices in military or recently out, and all are against it.    Most countries around world are agaisnt it, amny more sever than us.   They can serve, and they have.  However if they want to be out in army it won't work,  and will lead to problems. I  don't think it is even about that, I believe it's  homosexuals wanting their way.   

How about an all gay branch of military?    How many would actually join?  Most people, myself included, don't want any part of army, marines, or whatever. 


If don't ask don't tell was revoked, do you actually think thousands of gay people were showing up tomorrow to join??? 

Offline AJTNYC

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Re: DADT
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2010, 11:38:28 PM »
Majority of soldiers are against it.   I have friends and aquantices in military or recently out, and all are against it.    Most countries around world are agaisnt it, amny more sever than us.   They can serve, and they have.  However if they want to be out in army it won't work,  and will lead to problems. I  don't think it is even about that, I believe it's  homosexuals wanting their way.   

How about an all gay branch of military?    How many would actually join?  Most people, myself included, don't want any part of army, marines, or whatever. 


If don't ask don't tell was revoked, do you actually think thousands of gay people were showing up tomorrow to join??? 
You make it sound like if gays were openly admitted to the military they would think it was OK to put on a production of Ru Paul's Drag Race while missiles were flying overhead or that they would be coming on to all the straight guys (and girls) with a reckless abandon.  I'm sure there are thousands of gay men and women who have served in the military without anyone suspecting they were gay.  Even if they were the most flamboyant queen on the planet what you are not recognizing is that they can be and are professional, dedicated and courageous military personnel.

Offline kempsternyc

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Re: DADT
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2010, 11:47:50 PM »
Majority of soldiers are against it.   I have friends and aquantices in military or recently out, and all are against it.    Most countries around world are agaisnt it, amny more sever than us.   They can serve, and they have.  However if they want to be out in army it won't work,  and will lead to problems. I  don't think it is even about that, I believe it's  homosexuals wanting their way.   

How about an all gay branch of military?    How many would actually join?  Most people, myself included, don't want any part of army, marines, or whatever. 


If don't ask don't tell was revoked, do you actually think thousands of gay people were showing up tomorrow to join??? 

I point out this poll taken of Vets from the Iraq and Afghan wars.
http://www.vetvoicefoundation.com/new?id=0002

Quote
An overwhelming majority of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans say it is personally acceptable to them if gay and lesbian people were allowed to serve openly in the military. Seven in ten (73%) say it is acceptable, including 42% who say it would be acceptable and 31% who would find it acceptable even though they would not like it. Only a quarter (25%) would find it unacceptable. Generational differences exist here as well, but they are not as dramatic as conventional wisdom might indicate. Forty-seven percent of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans under age 35 find it acceptable and would like the policy change and another 30% find it acceptable and do not like it, for a total of 77% who find it personally acceptable if gay and lesbian people were allowed to serve openly in the military. Seventy percent of veterans over age 35 would find it acceptable and only a quarter would find it unacceptable (26%).


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Offline JoeyC

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Re: DADT
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2010, 11:49:08 PM »
No, I don't think that. You assume wrongly that I do.  The problem would be men, or women, who are stright, having to share close quarters and showers with people who may take unwanted liking to them.   If we put a bunch of straight men and women of age 18-25 in same showers every day, guess what??    That's why they are kept seperate.

Also, like it or not, many peole don't want gays around them at all--not me, but that's way it is.   Main two types in army are southerners and ghetto types, and many, believe it or not, are going to be very 'Gay friendly."    

We need military. If many refuse to join due to having to serve with gays, military will take a hit.   As for flambouyant RuPauls,  you said it, not me.  I don't see that going over too well at all.  I'd even get pissed off at that.      

Offline JoeyC

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Re: DADT
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2010, 11:58:02 PM »
As for those polls, I belive that they were not annonomous.  People will say stuff in private they won't say if asked in person. Like neg nodders.     If poll was anounomus, I'm surprised at results.     

Offline kempsternyc

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Re: DADT
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2010, 11:59:28 PM »
I just want to say that I'm not really upset by Joey's quoting from what I wrote the other day. That post was in complete jest and has nothing to do with this debate, as I told Joey last night......

And Joey, if I was still in the Army, I would have never even posted something like that in the first place. It just wouldn't be appropriate to be a soldier and post something like that.
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Offline kempsternyc

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Re: DADT
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2010, 12:01:24 AM »
As for those polls, I belive that they were not annonomous.  People will say stuff in private they won't say if asked in person. Like neg nodders.     If poll was anounomus, I'm surprised at results.     

Not sure why that matters. If your refering to the Tom Bradley effect, I think that has been basically discarded.
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Offline JoeyC

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Re: DADT
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2010, 12:05:44 AM »
"Not sure why that matters. If your refering to the Tom Bradley effect, I think that has been basically discarded."

I think it is true (The Bradley effect)  Meaning i would not discard it.

I hear of  polls that have shown otherwise.   Maybe if they let soldiers, and only soldiers who are active, vote on it, we would have true answer. 



Offline kempsternyc

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Re: DADT
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2010, 12:10:34 AM »
"Not sure why that matters. If your refering to the Tom Bradley effect, I think that has been basically discarded."

I think it is true (The Bradley effect)  Meaning i would not discard it.

I hear of  polls that have shown otherwise.   Maybe if they let soldiers, and only soldiers who are active, vote on it, we would have true answer. 




I lost track of the article....but results differ depending on if you use the term "gay and Lesbian" or "homosexual"

gay and lesbian tends to invoke a more postitive reponse (towards my way of thinking) Homosexual tends to invoke a more negative response. The thinking is that it is a medical/technical term. I'll try to track it down later.....my partner is heading to bed and sore from the show and just asked for a back rub.
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Offline JoeyC

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Re: DADT
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2010, 12:18:57 AM »
"I'll try to track it down later.....my partner is heading to bed and sore from the show and just asked for a back rub.""

Oh oh!   We can't have THAT in the barracks!    :-o

Offline kempsternyc

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Re: DADT
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2010, 12:37:58 AM »
"I'll try to track it down later.....my partner is heading to bed and sore from the show and just asked for a back rub.""

Oh oh!   We can't have THAT in the barracks!    :-o

hehe.....

Well, in all honesty, if I was in that deep of a relationship, I would probably be living off base at that point.
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Offline Speebs

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Re: DADT
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2010, 08:44:35 AM »
No, I don't think that. You assume wrongly that I do.  The problem would be men, or women, who are stright, having to share close quarters and showers with people who may take unwanted liking to them.   If we put a bunch of straight men and women of age 18-25 in same showers every day, guess what??    That's why they are kept seperate.

Also, like it or not, many peole don't want gays around them at all--not me, but that's way it is.   Main two types in army are southerners and ghetto types, and many, believe it or not, are going to be very 'Gay friendly."    

We need military. If many refuse to join due to having to serve with gays, military will take a hit.   As for flambouyant RuPauls,  you said it, not me.  I don't see that going over too well at all.  I'd even get pissed off at that.      

Joey... you realize that gays/lesbians are allowed to serve and shower and stuff already, as long as they keep it quiet, right?  Getting rid of DADT just gives them the option to make the personal decision whether they can be open about it.  Is your concern that repealing DADT will result in more gays in the military and therefore dissuade more people from joining the military in general?  Because there's really only one way to test that theory.

Offline daisy

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Re: DADT
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2010, 09:36:06 AM »
14000 men and women have been discharged from our armed forces due to this discriminatory and useless law.  14000.  For what?  For something that has absolutely nothing to do with how well they can serve their country.  All armed services personnel are expected to conduct themselves in a professional manner.  Many do.  Sexual harassment or massive PDA on the job by anyone of any sex is not tolerated or exemplary of a professional work environment.  Violators can be thrown out.  No matter what orientation they are.  Why can't it be as simple as that?   We lose so many good people for something so so stupid.

Offline Sweeper

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Re: DADT
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2010, 09:45:25 AM »
Quote
Sexual harassment or massive PDA on the job by anyone of any sex is not tolerated or exemplary of a professional work environment.

It has nothing to do with a "work environment" it has to do with a living arrangement. You don't just punch out for the day and go live your life.

Also, the US Military does not exist to provide positive affirmation for any individual. It's sole purpose is to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

Kemper's personnel story, while touching and obviously sincerely, is actually a reason for DADT.

Offline daisy

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Re: DADT
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2010, 09:52:39 AM »
Again I ask why is it not as simple as kicking someone out if they so much as make a move on another person?   Heterosexual people need no positive affirmation, so why is the distinction only made for homosexuals?   Just because someone is gay, it doesn't mean they are running around jumping in everyone's bed.  If you sign up for the military, you are expected to conduct yourself in a professional manner no matter where you are.  No matter what sex you are or orientation you are.  No matter what time it is.  If you cannot, you don't belong in the military.  It's a full time job and you don't get days off.  It's a non-issue and your sexual orientation has absolutely nothing to do with how well you can protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

Offline 28Grand

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Re: DADT
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2010, 10:21:57 AM »
The US military is a huge organization and not all service members live on base or in same-sex barracks, sharing sleeping quarters and bathrooms. Even on base, some members of the military have their own rooms. Accommodations can be 'accommodated' in many, but not all situations.

The Israeli military allows gay people to serve openly, even in combat situations (as do women), yet remains an effective, cohesive fighting force.

The problem with DADT is that too many times the Military ignores it so why bother having it in place? Many of the people discharged were done so after being outed by other people.

Offline 28Grand

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Re: DADT
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2010, 10:42:07 AM »
The military seems to be keeping up it's bargain on the "don't ask" part. Service men and women just don't seem to want to keep up their part cause they keep telling.

Can someone tell me how repealing DADT makes our military more effective?

If only that were true -- it is not. In many cases service members are accused of being gay by other people and are forced to either admit the truth or lie, which is also against military regulations.

In 2009, 428 service members were discharged for violating the ban on openly gay troops. In 2008 the number was 619. Over 30% were women, which may or may say something given that women make up only 15% of the armed forces.

If you have them, please show the numbers discharged for committing adultery and fraternization between male and female service members. I'd like to see if the rules are being applied equally to heterosexuals.

Offline daisy

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Re: DADT
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2010, 11:04:45 AM »
I was quoting Sweeper's post but for some reason it has disappeared - I think the software had a hiccup - I would like to respond to his quote that we were essentially talking about the same thing because heterosexuals committed of adultery or fraternization are thrown out too.  "The military seems to be keeping up it's bargain on the "don't ask" part. Service men and women just don't seem to want to keep up their part cause they keep telling."

From me:
We are not saying the same thing, because it's not the same  - if a military man were to mention his wife or girlfriend in passing, about her new job, their kids, their family - that man would remain in the military.  If a gay military man or women were to mention their partner in passing, they would be discharged.  It is not the same.  Gay military can't even mention a word about their loved ones because it's as if they don't exist.  14000 military men and women are an awful lot to lose just because someone outed them.  Think about it - that's 14000 more troops that could be helping defend us.  And they are not, because of a technicality.

Offline holyfrjole

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Re: DADT
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2010, 10:19:02 PM »
I wonder, do the people like JoeyC who oppose it so vociferously -- civilians for whom the repeal of DADT would have no impact on whatsoever -- realize that there are gays and lesbians EVERYWHERE? We're doctors, lawyers, teachers, clergy, etc. People who you put your trust in to heal you when you're sick, take care of your legal affairs, teach your children, and look to for spiritual guidance. And odds are a gay person designed your clothing, cooked your meal at a fine restaurant, and wrote and recorded some of your favorite music too.

We can do all of those things and do them well, without offending anyone, without our sexuality being an issue. Yet, when we want to proudly serve our country openly and honestly, the homophobia rages on and suddenly we're sexual predators checking out the guy or girl next to us while we shower. Really? I'm shocked that people don't realize just how stupid that is.

I can only hope that someday, people will realize that being gay and lesbian is about so much more than just sex. Note to heterosexuals: we're just like you. We're just as diverse, just as multi-dimensional. We worry about global warming, the state of the economy, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and health care reform too. And shockingly, some of us are fiscally conservative. Some of us are even more socially conservative than you'd expect. But no, according to folks like JoeyC, we're only interested in sex. And we check people out ALL THE TIME. Because we can't be professional and do our jobs -- whether we're doctors, lawyers, teachers or clergy; designers, chefs, or musicians, or in the military-- because apparently, we're so distracted by all that sex. If that were true, this would be a far more dysfunctional world than it already is.

DADT is destructive and discriminatory. It doesn't prevent gays and lesbians from being in the military, it prevents them from being out and being able to live their lives openly and proudly while serving their country in the most noble of ways. Why anyone would object to that is beyond me.

Offline JoeyC

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Re: DADT
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2010, 12:56:36 AM »
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"""I wonder, do the people like JoeyC who oppose it so vociferously -- civilians for whom the repeal of DADT would have no impact on whatsoever -- realize that there are gays and lesbians EVERYWHERE? """


Like I don't know??  Our military has an impact on my life and every Americans wife.  As for dotors, Lawyers, and everyone else you mentioned or didn't, they got where they are, are gay, and by professions mentioed, are doing fine. Why would I have problem with gay lawyer, doctor, cab driver, pizza maker, or dentist??   I don't.       Military is diferent environment.   

Offline kempsternyc

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Re: DADT
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2010, 01:53:12 AM »
     Military is diferent environment.   

And how do you know this? What is your personal experiance that makes you state this?
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Offline odenhal

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Re: DADT
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2010, 03:46:24 PM »
there was a point when African Americans  ( i am politicly correct with that......right...i hope ) could not serve
there was a point when females could not serve

and all the same arguments against them serving are darn close to the same arguments we are useing against gays now

its like come on
you can not deny this gorgeosness, you can only hope to handle it

Offline megc

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Re: DADT
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2010, 04:31:25 PM »
ODENHAL speaks the truth.

Offline Mer

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Re: DADT
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2010, 07:46:01 PM »
Odenhal is wise.


Down with bigotry!

Offline Debbie

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Re: DADT
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2010, 02:00:31 PM »
Gay people will serve openly in the military.  It is only a matter of time.  It will happen as we move forward as a nation.  It is inevitable.

Offline FZ

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Re: DADT
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2010, 11:58:54 AM »
I spent 4 years in active in the NAVY and 8 years in the Reserve. I think there could be problems with either gender if say they put openingly 'hetero' folks mixed in together. It's not that every man and woman is attracted to each other in close quarters, but, it would cause problems on a whole host of levels. This is why genders are kept separate in the Military.

The subject at hand would present some of the same problems and that is why it's being debated. Sure, there are always people who hate others based on sex, gender and race, but, when one states that they are hetero-sexual, usually goes without saying, or Homo-sexual, it will create a problem if they are in close quarters.

I knew gay folks in the Military and one lady, who happened to be lesbian, we became friends and we even joked around that liking women is  something we have in common. :-) I wouldn't want her or any brave, honorable American to lose their career in the Military solely on the basis of  being found out as gay or lesbian.

My solution, like President Obama's tax compromise, won't make anyone happy, but, may be the only one at this time. Drop DADT, and base it all on behavior for everyone. I would also start an intergration, the final bias, of the genders. There is no reason male and females are separarted and true equality should have no bias.

I would be surprised, even if the rule is dropped ,that anyone would come out to many folks, since most folks are not gay or lesbian. But, it would be the height of hypocricy and probably illegal, if the DADT law was dropped and they military or any govt. run agency still separated based on gender. The latter would be hetero-phobia and I'm sure all those in favor of dropping DADT, me included, would be just as in favor of dropping gender bias across the board.

Offline kempsternyc

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Re: DADT
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2010, 12:54:00 AM »


I knew gay folks in the Military and one lady, who happened to be lesbian, we became friends and we even joked around that liking women is  something we have in common. :-) I wouldn't want her or any brave, honorable American to lose their career in the Military solely on the basis of  being found out as gay or lesbian.

My solution, like President Obama's tax compromise, won't make anyone happy, but, may be the only one at this time. Drop DADT, and base it all on behavior for everyone. I would also start an intergration, the final bias, of the genders. There is no reason male and females are separarted and true equality should have no bias.



Actually, for me, you hit it dead on. Conduct is what it is all about. I, as a gay soldier, cannot grab some guys cluck.....

I love talking about nothing father, it is the only thing I know anything about -

Lord Goring "An Ideal Husband"

Offline kempsternyc

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Re: DADT
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2010, 12:45:43 PM »
Cloture Invoked 63-33. Final PAssage at 3pm.

All that is left is for the military to write the regs!

I love talking about nothing father, it is the only thing I know anything about -

Lord Goring "An Ideal Husband"

Offline mcdirk

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Re: DADT
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2010, 03:50:46 PM »
I'm really happy with the DADT repeal, but very disappointed that they did not secure cloture on the DREAM act.  Such mixed feelings today.

Offline KateMSW

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Re: DADT
« Reply #40 on: December 19, 2010, 03:45:43 PM »
I'm really happy with the DADT repeal, but very disappointed that they did not secure cloture on the DREAM act.  Such mixed feelings today.

This!  I am ecstatic about DADT being repealed but sorry about the DREAM Act. 


 

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