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Author Topic: Angry about the healthcare bill?  (Read 13767 times)

rg

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Re: Angry about the healthcare bill?
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2010, 01:48:43 PM »
Most of the American public will see no changes at all to their current insurance unless they have none.

This is MY biggest problem with the bill.  My employer sponsored plan premiums went up 17% from 2008 to 2009. I am bracing for whatever the increase is going to be this year.  The bill that passed seems to have little in the way of keeping costs and premiums down.  I know there are some provisions that will mandate a certain percentage of dollars go towards medical care so maybe that will help but as is the case with most of this stuff, only time will tell.

Insurance companies are already saying the bill will cause premiums to go up, but this is bullshit.  It's not like premiums were not increasing at out of control rates before the bill passed or would not have increased if the bill wasn't passed.  

I am, however, in favor of affordable insurance being made available to everyone.  Many people do work very hard but individual insurance is just not affordable nor does it provide decent coverage.

Offline Ntrain

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Re: Angry about the healthcare bill?
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2010, 02:45:01 PM »
The bill that passed seems to have little in the way of keeping costs and premiums down.

EXACTLY!  The bill as it is now forces insurance companies to accept certain people who they otherwise would have denied, which is going to bankrupt them, and then of course the only option will be the public option.  Also, reimbursement rates for doctors will be going down, so many doctors will be switching professions or not accepting insurance, which will decrease the number of doctors available to the newly-insured, making it harder to obtain medical care.  Not to mention the health care rationing, especially for older people.  This bill sickens me, and it should do the same to you.

Offline ladydi

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Re: Angry about the healthcare bill?
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2010, 03:51:59 PM »
I'm not happy about the bill due to the lack of public option. I'm hoping that will come in time.
My partner does not receive insurance from his employer. He makes under $30,000, pays his taxes,
does "the right things" and yet can't afford to see a doctor or get a prescription when he's ill. That's wrong!

But I just read an article on msn.com that really explains things thoroughly about how the bill will affect you
now and in the future. Easy to understand - here's the link:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35986235/ns/health-health_care/ns/health-health_care

Offline doglover

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Re: Angry about the healthcare bill?
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2010, 04:19:30 PM »
NTrain, health care rationing does not exist and was never a part of the bill. That is a buzz word made up by politicians to scare you and sway public opinion. Please do some factual research about this bill. Here is an article from factcheck.org, an independent organization designed to root out the lies that politicians tell us. I can't believe that you would object to not allowing insurance companies to deny anyone care that they need. Honestly and truly, if anyone that you love were sick and dropped from their insurance company thereby bankrupting their family or killing them, I think you may change your mind on that. Private industry needs regulation. Any cursory glance at the financial industry and how it has gotten us into this economic cluster f*ck due to lack of regulation and oversight will tell you that. The millions of new customers that insurance will receive will surely offset the costs of the money they currently save from their immoral practices. P.S., there is no public option. It is not in the bill.

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/03/a-final-weekend-of-whoppers/

Offline NYCGoalie

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Re: Angry about the healthcare bill?
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2010, 04:44:43 PM »
EXACTLY!  The bill as it is now forces insurance companies to accept certain people who they otherwise would have denied, which is going to bankrupt them, and then of course the only option will be the public option.

Not true.  Matter of fact, it's the complete opposite.

Perfectly healthy people will be required to have insurance.  They will pay in and the money collected from them will be used to pay for those who get sick.  And there are far more healthy people than there are sick people.  Which means the healthcare companies will make money now that they have a greater pool of customers.

Drug manufacturers stand to benefit too since now they will (eventually) have more customers.  This is evidenced in the recent run-up on pharma stocks.  Oh, and the market has recently gained ground, so shareholders of paharmaceuticals (like those of use with 401k's) are gaining ground.

And how does denying people coverage help anyone?  If someone is ill and cannot receive treatment, they are more of a burden on the system.  It likely means that thier ability to earn a livelihood is limited; which means they can't work and must receive unemployment.  If they can't work, thier taxes aren't being collected.  And if they have to go to a hospital and receive emergency treatment and can't pay the bill, the hospital loses money and profit.  So again, how does having people not covered help anyone?

Also, reimbursement rates for doctors will be going down, so many doctors will be switching professions or not accepting insurance, which will decrease the number of doctors available to the newly-insured, making it harder to obtain medical care.  Not to mention the health care rationing, especially for older people.

1) There's simply no evidence that fewer people will enter the medical profession because of the plan.  This is merely specualation on your part with no concrete data to back it up.

There are many reasons why people choose one profession over another.  And I know of no profession now which gaurantees immediate wealth.  I graduated from law school, and I know tons of people (myself included) with the degree had a tough time finding work.  I'm on Wall Street now, and I know a ton of MBA's who got let go this past year due to the market collapse and will NEVER find thier way back in to the market.  I can't imagine every person who becomes a doctor does so with the sole purpose of being wealthy. 

Matter of fact, many doctors already have problems getting re-imbursed from the current health-care setup.  Under the new plan, everyone will have some type of coverage, so therefore, somone will pay the bill.  This makes life easier for doctors, not harder. 

2) Nothing in the bill mentions anything about health care "rationing".  Again, pure speculation (kinda like the whole idea of "death panels"). We already have a large medical infrastructure within the U.S.  Nothing in the bill forces this infrastructure to shrink.  Matter of fact, with more money comming in, there will likely be an increase.  If you look at companies which provide medical equipment and are publically traded, they are already expecting increase production in the comming years.  A larger infrastructure means greater access, not less access.

Offline Christine

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Re: Angry about the healthcare bill?
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2010, 04:59:32 PM »
The healthcare bill is so full of pork and special interests, it will waste our hard-earned tax dollars.

Generally, I distrust ANYthing the gov't does, and am hardly a flag-waving Obama fanatic.

But if we can establish a socialized medical system, I say let's go for it! When I got sick in France many years ago, not only did the doctor pay a house call, the visit was completely free. Meds were cheap. I'm not the only person to have experienced this.

My only problem with this bill, is that I can't imagine it'll go smoothly, or that it really has Americans' best interests in mind. Do I know all the details? No. Do I want some serious reform? Hell yes.

The gov't is plenty talented at wasting our hard-earned money. Google "CityTime NYC" to see a perfect example of $700 million + wasted on city employee punch clocks.  :x

And it's silly to think of it as Democrats vs Republicans.
"Apparently these are the best women Queens has to offer. Now pick one and let's go home."

Offline Mckenna797

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Re: Angry about the healthcare bill?
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2010, 06:36:55 PM »
I Really Find it interesting that members of Congress and the Senate exempted themselves from the Plan,

jeffc2

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Re: Angry about the healthcare bill?
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2010, 08:17:30 PM »
Quote
It is the farthest thing from socialized medicine. There is no public option in the bill. There is no government insurance options. The government will not dictate any procedures you can and cannot receive. That is blatant misinformation. Please read the actual items in the bill and then form an opinion for yourself.

Cant try and reason with ignorance.

Offline essen

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Re: Angry about the healthcare bill?
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2010, 12:28:21 AM »
This is MY biggest problem with the bill.  My employer sponsored plan premiums went up 17% from 2008 to 2009. I am bracing for whatever the increase is going to be this year.  The bill that passed seems to have little in the way of keeping costs and premiums down.  I know there are some provisions that will mandate a certain percentage of dollars go towards medical care so maybe that will help but as is the case with most of this stuff, only time will tell.

I also have a big problem with health insurance costs. I'm paying over $50 every week for health insurance through my employer (a fairly small business). Our plan premiums jumped by 30% from 2009 to 2010. It is ridiculous, and I am scared of what the future brings in terms of health insurance costs.

Now, I have not read the bill. I doubt anyone yet in this thread has actually read the bill either. But, from what I've gathered, there are actually some things in the bill that are to take a look at costs and see how to better manage them and build on those ideas later, i.e. pilot programs. The New Yorker had an interesting article in December about past uses of pilot programs, for anyone interested: How the Senate bill would contain the cost of health care

One of the biggest problems with our health care system is that no one really seems to know exactly why our health care is so much more expensive than much of the rest of the world's health care, without generally better results to go along with it, and how we can turn things around to make treatment more cost effective without people feeling like they're not getting good care. It's not as easy as going, "An MRI should cost fifty bucks." It's more like going, "Would this patient really benefit from the MRI? Are you just giving it to them because it would ease their mind, even though you already pretty much know what the problem is? Will doing this improve their prognosis?" etc. Basically it's not just about costs, it's also about behavior, both on the part of doctors, hospitals, and patients. And insurance companies are there to make a profit off of that mess.

So rather than making up some arbitrary rules to keep costs and premiums down, select people involved will have to start doing things to look at ways to manage costs through more sensible and effective treatment methods and better care coordination, and try to think of how to improve quality of care and not just quantity of care. In the meantime, millions of people who did not have access to health insurance before will now be able to get it.

Offline Clueless

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Re: Angry about the healthcare bill?
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2010, 12:15:46 PM »
I thought that because we we're in NYC of all places, that people would be a lot smarter about all this, but I guess no place is an exemption. Ignorance, and illogical people are everywhere.

Universal health care works. Canada, Europe and France have proved it, and they all live comfortably, so get over it.
I'm not saying that the bill being passed is the best, but its a step forward. Changes have been needed for awhile, and insurances companies have had their fun sucking the average person dry with premiums, deductibles and co-payments.

Try telling half of Astoria with Medicaid, that there insurance plan is no good for the country. They'll just laugh that you pay a deductible every year and pay $10+ for every medication, where as they pay an average of a dollar per. Matter of fact I remember ringing up a patient for 12 different medications, all worth about $1000 dollars. She paid nothing.

That's how s___ should be. Period.

Offline plank

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Re: Angry about the healthcare bill?
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2010, 01:01:58 PM »
YAY healthcare! I'm so glad this passed. Thank God compassion for our fellow man won out over greed and the corruption of capitalism run amuck. If you think private industry is looking out for your best interest and not just their bottom dollar, you're out of your mind. Private industry looking to make money with no regulations is not the healthcare system I want or trust to protect me and my family if they are sick. Thankfully we have someone in office that will see beyond the fear-mongering and mis-information that has been spread and eaten up by those unwilling to accept anything but their own party line.

 :mrgreen:

Offline Billz1981

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Re: Angry about the healthcare bill?
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2010, 01:33:46 PM »
I thought that because we we're in NYC of all places, that people would be a lot smarter about all this, but I guess no place is an exemption. Ignorance, and illogical people are everywhere.

Universal health care works. Canada, Europe and France have proved it, and they all live comfortably, so get over it.
I'm not saying that the bill being passed is the best, but its a step forward. Changes have been needed for awhile, and insurances companies have had their fun sucking the average person dry with premiums, deductibles and co-payments.

Try telling half of Astoria with Medicaid, that there insurance plan is no good for the country. They'll just laugh that you pay a deductible every year and pay $10+ for every medication, where as they pay an average of a dollar per. Matter of fact I remember ringing up a patient for 12 different medications, all worth about $1000 dollars. She paid nothing.

That's how s___ should be. Period.

I don't understand your point.  Obviously someone who is getting a thousand dollars worth of services and paying nothing is going to be happy with that.  I think your argument might be that everyone should have those same benefits?  Even if that is the case in purely moral terms, how would you propose to pay for it?  If everyone had services like that, and no one paid for services, where would the money come from?

I think from a re-reading of your posting that you're trying to address the question as to the quality of universal healthcare?  But just because the plan might be good for the individual, does not mean that it would be good for the country.  Fiscally speaking, if nothing else.  You do get that these things are paid for out of our taxes and that there is a limit to what can be afforded, correct?  If no one is actually paying for services, it reduces the tax base.

Also, there are two sides to every story.  In other words, there are plenty of accounts of universal healthcare NOT working.  My take is that obviously, some sort of government run plan is a good thing for someone who has nothing.  In fact, such a thing already exists as Medicaid.  But if you can swing a private plan, it's immensely preferable.  In Europe (where many of the countries are in fiscal trouble, by the way), there are waiting lists for certain procedures.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 01:49:51 PM by Billz1981 »

Offline NYCMacUser

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Re: Angry about the healthcare bill?
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2010, 01:54:27 PM »
I also have a big problem with health insurance costs. I'm paying over $50 every week for health insurance through my employer (a fairly small business). Our plan premiums jumped by 30% from 2009 to 2010. It is ridiculous, and I am scared of what the future brings in terms of health insurance costs.
The Medicare Part B premium is increased each year, if necessary, to fund about 25% of the projected cost of Part B. In 2010, most people will continue to pay the 2009 Part B premium of $96.40, even though the 2010 standard monthly Part B premium is $110.50.

And Medicare does not cover actual cost, but the Medicare contracted rate which is about 35% of actual cost; and at that it only covers 80% of the contracted cost so a MediGap policy is usually required (I currently pay $800+ per quarter for BC/BS) or you have to join a Medicare Advantage HMO group.

So your medical insurance costs you $2600.00 and mine cost me $4526.00 for the same year and the very same insurance.

If we had REAL socialized medicine it would cost us both the same amount: $0000.00.

That's how it should be.


In Europe (where many of the countries are in fiscal trouble, by the way), there are waiting lists for certain procedures.
These are voluntary procedures. Any system that deals in medicine must routinely prioritize. A hip replacement cannot precede the appendectomy. Just as any transplant procedure cannot be superseded by a laminectomy.

Can you imagine getting your prescription medicines free? Seeing a physician when YOU want to?

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Offline neo11

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Re: Angry about the healthcare bill?
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2010, 01:57:20 PM »
It's interesting that most of those people who are fear-mongering over the "intrusion" of "big government" into our lives with the health care bill seem to have no problem with social security, or with ever-increasing military budgets and spending billions on the black holes in Afghanistan and Iraq, or on dubious (and huge) government agencies such as "Homeland Security."  I guess what's considered "intrusive" and "big government" is relative.

Offline Billz1981

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Re: Angry about the healthcare bill?
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2010, 02:46:47 PM »
It's interesting that most of those people who are fear-mongering over the "intrusion" of "big government" into our lives with the health care bill seem to have no problem with social security, or with ever-increasing military budgets and spending billions on the black holes in Afghanistan and Iraq, or on dubious (and huge) government agencies such as "Homeland Security."  I guess what's considered "intrusive" and "big government" is relative.

Hmm... I'm one of those people, but I'd prefer the term "legitimate policy disagreement" over "fear mongering."  I think you'll find that "most" of the people who take that stance do have a problem with social security and other entitlement programs.


 

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