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Author Topic: Prop 8 Trial  (Read 5850 times)

Offline kempsternyc

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Prop 8 Trial
« on: January 27, 2010, 10:03:48 PM »
Well, The Testimony portion of the trial is over and I must say it was fascinating. I'm probably one of a few that read through most of the blogging transcripts. (Yeah, I'm weird).

Boies and Olson were amazing. And the defendants were strangely absent. They only presented two witnesses that the plaintiffs tore apart. I am eagerly awaiting the judges decision which will probably be months away.

my favorite part was this from today......btw, they are both men.....the blogger said the courtroom doubled over in laughter.

Boies: I don’t want to fall into the trap of making sex boring
Blankenhorn: MAybe together we can make it interesting

I love talking about nothing father, it is the only thing I know anything about -

Lord Goring "An Ideal Husband"

Offline kempsternyc

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Re: Prop 8 Trial
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2010, 08:49:02 PM »
The Judge's decision comes out tomorrow. I hope it goes better then it did her in New York State.
I love talking about nothing father, it is the only thing I know anything about -

Lord Goring "An Ideal Husband"

Offline mcdirk

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Re: Prop 8 Trial
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2010, 10:18:01 PM »
should be interesting to see how the ruling comes down tomorrow.  I do fear our current Supreme Court though. 

Offline kempsternyc

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Re: Prop 8 Trial
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2010, 10:26:46 PM »
I'm not sure of fearing the Supreme Court.....only because of Justice Kennedy who wrote Lawrence vs. Texas. With the precedent of Loving vs. Virginia, I can't see how we can't get a majority.
I love talking about nothing father, it is the only thing I know anything about -

Lord Goring "An Ideal Husband"

Offline TRX

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Re: Prop 8 Trial
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2010, 12:16:04 PM »

Is there a reason to expect that it should be a better result than NYS? And this decision is expected to be appealed to higher courts.
Dont see yet a reason to fear the US Supremes.
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Offline mangopaco

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Re: Prop 8 Trial
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2010, 04:40:45 PM »
Breaking News: CA Prop 8 held to be unconstitutional under due process and equal protection. Will be released at 2 pm PT... Judge strikes down 'Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California'...

Offline kempsternyc

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Re: Prop 8 Trial
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2010, 04:53:08 PM »
HELL! YEAH!
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Offline Mer

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Re: Prop 8 Trial
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2010, 08:17:32 PM »
WHOO HOO!!! 

Onward and upward!    :-)

Offline TRX

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Re: Prop 8 Trial
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2010, 09:18:27 PM »

Seems the NYS court decision was at a lower level.
So is marriage legally in effect in CA?

One step closer to the US Supreme Court

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-04/california-s-gay-marriage-ban-overturned-in-first-u-s-trial-over-legality.html

Quote
Liberty and Freedom

Theodore Olson, a former U.S. solicitor general, argued on behalf of the gay couples seeking marriage rights. He said the U.S. Supreme Court
 has determined in 14 cases going back to 1888 that marriage is tied to rights of
privacy, liberty and freedom. He said Proposition 8 proponents can’t show that California has any rational basis or compelling interest to take away that right.


Sometimes folks are for it
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Offline kempsternyc

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Re: Prop 8 Trial
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2010, 11:54:26 PM »
Seems the NYS court decision was at a lower level.
So is marriage legally in effect in CA?



Not quite yet. The next step is whether a stay should be issued while the case winds it way through the courts. I'm not sure where that will land.

I love talking about nothing father, it is the only thing I know anything about -

Lord Goring "An Ideal Husband"

Offline JoeyC

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Re: Prop 8 Trial
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2010, 01:34:30 AM »
I think it's very wrong. Voters had their say, a judge had no business changing it.   

Offline J Roscoe

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Re: Prop 8 Trial
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2010, 08:35:21 AM »
I think it's very wrong. Voters had their say, a judge had no business changing it.  

I disagree.  The judges business was to uphold the laws of CA, especially in reference to anything that violates equal rights and the CA Constitution.

Just because a majority voted for Prop 8 doesn't make it constitutional.  Creating new laws can be a convoluted and drawn out process, but I think this time the justice system got it right this time.  If this gets reversed at the federal level it will be a good example of personal beliefs/agendas overruling constitutional rights/equalities.

On a lite note, I think Bill Hicks said it best when pining about gays in the military: "Anyone dumb enough to want to be in the military should be allowed."  I think this quote equally applies to marriage as well.  :-D

The belief that heterosexual relationships are superior in a nature that affords them more rights over homosexual relationships is akin to saying the same thing about interracial couples.

It's an old-school mores that promotes the same types of superiority and segregation felt during the civil rights era.
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Offline casicua

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Re: Prop 8 Trial
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2010, 10:00:21 AM »
The popular vote also produced racial segregation laws, which were ultimately deemed unconstitutional.
Unlike politicians, the supreme court does not exist to appease voters, it exists to make judgments on whether something is constitutional or legal under our current constitution and legislation.

I'm happy that Prop 8 was over-ruled.

Offline holyfrjole

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Re: Prop 8 Trial
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2010, 01:05:27 PM »
Seems the NYS court decision was at a lower level.
So is marriage legally in effect in CA?

Different courts.

The Prop 8 decision was a federal court -- from here, upon appeal, it goes to the 9th Circuit -- the federal appellate court for that district (the trial court decision was in the Northern District of California). First it goes to a 3 panel judge in the 9th Circuit, then, because of the importance of this decision, will likely be heard en banc -- by the full panel of judges in the 9th Circuit. Once the lower court decision is affirmed or overturned, then it can go up to the Supreme Court who can either agree to hear the case, or can deny certiorari -- refuse to hear it, thereby letting the circuit court decision stand.

Here's where it gets interesting -- while the appellate courts can find that Walker's legal conclusions can be affirmed or overturned, his findings of fact stand. In other words, the sides don't get to provide new evidence. Walker's decision gives an amazingly detailed recitation of the facts, and he reviewed the case under both strict scrutiny and rational basis tests -- in other words, he covered his ass incredibly well, in anticipation of appellate review.

The New York State case -- Hernandez v. Robles -- went to NYS's highest court, the Court of Appeals. It wasn't a "lower level" court, it was a different court system altogether.

There's another NY case that gets very little press -- Martinez v. County of Monroe -- where the 4th Department appellate court (in upstate NY) held that since NYS recognizes out of state opposite sex marriages, it must recognize legal out of state same-sex marriages as well. The Court of Appeals declined to review it.

So to answer your question, technically, yes, marriage is legal in California, but I believe there's been a stay of Judge Walker's order pending appeal. So while yes, it's lawful, it can't be put into practice just yet.

Offline JoeyC

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Re: Prop 8 Trial
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2010, 01:13:24 PM »
7 million voters voted, it was large turnout, and in a year it's in front of one judge, who over rules voters.   Wrong.


 

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