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Author Topic: Refrences of Bible removed from guns.  (Read 1666 times)

Offline FZ

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Refrences of Bible removed from guns.
« on: January 22, 2010, 01:38:03 AM »
I wonder who really complained  about  verses  from the Bible on guns, surely, it can't  be anyone like that Hasan character in the military at Ft. Hood? I can't imagine during any other war at any other time to be told to remove  refrences of  the beliefs of the soldiers fighting. This is why the Islamicists are winning and even amongst us in our city after 9/11.


Firm will remove Bible references from gun sights
By RICHARD LARDNER


WASHINGTON (AP) - A Michigan defense contractor will voluntarily stop stamping references to Bible verses on combat rifle sights made for the U.S. military, a major buyer of the company's gear.

In a statement released Thursday, Trijicon of Wixom, Mich., says it is also providing to the armed forces free of charge modification kits to remove the Scripture citations from the telescoping sights already in use. Through multimillion dollar contracts, the Marine Corps and Army have bought more than 300,000 Trijicon sights.

The references to Bible passages raised concerns that the citations break a government rule that bars proselytizing by American troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, which are predominantly Muslim countries.

A spokesman for U.S. Central Command initially said the Trijicon sights didn't violate the ban and compared the citations on the sights to the ``In God We Trust'' inscription printed on U.S. currency.

On Thursday, however, Army Gen. David Petraeus, Central Command's top officer, called the practice ``disturbing.''

``This is a serious concern to me and the other commanders in Iraq and Afghanistan,'' Petraeus told an audience at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

In a statement issued later by the command, Petraeus said that ``cultural and religious sensitivities are important considerations in the conduct of military operations.''

New Zealand announced Thursday that they would remove the citations from the sights they have, and Australia, which also uses the sights, is assessing what to do.

New Zealand defense force spokesman Maj. Kristian Dunne said Trijicon would be instructed to remove the inscriptions from further orders of the gun sights for New Zealand and the letters would be removed from gun sights already in use by troops.

The inscriptions are not obvious and appear in raised lettering at the end of the stock number. Trijicon's rifle sights use tritium, a radioactive form of hydrogen, to create light and help shooters hit what they're aiming for.

Markings on the Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight, which is standard issue to U.S. special operations forces, include ``JN8:12,'' a reference to John 8:12: ``Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, 'I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life,''' according to the King James version of the Bible.

The Trijicon Reflex sight is stamped with 2COR4:6, a reference to part of the second letter of Paul to the Corinthians: ``For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ,'' the King James version reads.

Photos posted on a Defense Department Web site show Iraqi forces training with rifles equipped with the inscribed sights.

Rev. C. Welton Gaddy, president of the Interfaith Alliance, said in a letter sent Thursday to President Barack Obama that the gun sights ``clearly violate'' the rule against proselytizing. Gaddy added that ``images of American soldiers as Christian crusaders come to mind when they are carrying weaponry bearing such verses.''

Mikey Weinstein, president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, contacted The Associated Press last week about the Scripture citations. He said he had received complaints from active-duty and retired members of the military. Weinstein said he couldn't identify them because they fear retaliation.

The company's practice of putting Bible references on the sites began nearly 30 years ago by Trijicon's founder, Glyn Bindon, who was killed in a plane crash in 2003. His son Stephen, Trijicon's president, has continued the practice.

``Trijicon has proudly served the U.S. military for more than two decades, and our decision to offer to voluntarily remove these references is both prudent and appropriate,'' Stephen Bindon said in the statement.

The statement does not provide an estimate on the removal costs. A company spokesman did not return a telephone call.

The company is also making the same offer to military in other countries that have purchased Trijicon's rifle sights.

An Army spokesman said Thursday the service was unaware of the coded biblical references until a few days ago.

``It is not the policy of the Army or the Department of Defense to put religious references of any kind on its equipment,'' Lt. Col. Jimmie Cummings said.

Marine Corps spokeswoman Capt. Geraldine Carey said the service ``is making every effort to remove these markings from all of our scopes and will ensure that all future procurement of these scopes will not have these types of markings.''

Associated Press writer Anne Flaherty contributed to this report.




Offline Speebs

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Re: Refrences of Bible removed from guns.
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2010, 11:22:29 AM »
I wonder who really complained  about  verses  from the Bible on guns, surely, it can't  be anyone like that Hasan character in the military at Ft. Hood?

What does that have to do with this?

Quote
I can't imagine during any other war at any other time to be told to remove  refrences of  the beliefs of the soldiers fighting.

Not every soldier is a practicing Christian.  If certain service members are so devout, they can inscribe the references on their own equipment.

Quote
This is why the Islamicists are winning and even amongst us in our city after 9/11.

What does this have to do with NYC or 9/11...?

Offline jenriet

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Re: Refrences of Bible removed from guns.
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2010, 06:57:42 PM »
Actually, plenty of the troops themselves complained about the sights - so it does not reflect the feeling of all the troops.

Moreover, the most compelling argument I heard about this issue was brought up by a general on the news. Our troops teach Islamic soldiers how to shoot with those rifles. You can see the inscription when using the sight. By putting these references to biblical passages on rifles, there is concern that it is sending a message that this war is about religion, which it is not supposed to be about. Some feel that giving the impression that we are fighting for religious reasons in a way gives credence to the insurgents fighting a jihad. Anyway, the way it was presented by the general made a lot of sense, at least to me.

Offline essen

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Re: Refrences of Bible removed from guns.
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2010, 11:50:05 AM »
It's a horrendous practice to put religious inscriptions on weapons used to kill people, that is unless you want this to be thought of as a religious war. Though it's kind of funny to imagine what other religions/non-religions might put on in their place:

Agnostics: "I don't know if there's a God, but I do know I'm going to shoot this person, and I really hope it goes well."

Offline Debbie

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Re: Refrences of Bible removed from guns.
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2010, 06:34:16 PM »
References to God do not belong on weapons, or money.

Offline TRX

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Re: References of Bible removed from guns.
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2010, 12:30:42 PM »
Though it's kind of funny to imagine what other religions/non-religions might put on in their place:

Agnostics: "I don't know if there's a God, but I do know I'm going to shoot this person, and I really hope it goes well."

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Endorsing reincarnation, very very soon
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 12:39:13 PM by TRX »
Life, Liberty, Happiness (pursuit of) and pasta

Offline FZ

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Re: Refrences of Bible removed from guns.
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2010, 02:53:07 PM »
Actually, plenty of the troops themselves complained about the sights - so it does not reflect the feeling of all the troops.

Moreover, the most compelling argument I heard about this issue was brought up by a general on the news. Our troops teach Islamic soldiers how to shoot with those rifles. You can see the inscription when using the sight. By putting these references to biblical passages on rifles, there is concern that it is sending a message that this war is about religion, which it is not supposed to be about. Some feel that giving the impression that we are fighting for religious reasons in a way gives credence to the insurgents fighting a jihad. Anyway, the way it was presented by the general made a lot of sense, at least to me.

Since the Koran takes refrences from the Bible and those  fighting for you believe in the Bible it should be tolerated, or is tolerance only a one way street?

Offline FZ

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Re: Refrences of Bible removed from guns.
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2010, 02:55:20 PM »
What does that have to do with this?

Not every soldier is a practicing Christian.  If certain service members are so devout, they can inscribe the references on their own equipment.

What does this have to do with NYC or 9/11...?

This ha sto do with a war being fought  against an extreme form of Islam that wants to conquer the world. It has  millions of adherents armed by such states as Iran and Syria and have been fighting this war, mostly  one sided and on the offensive, till we woke up on 9/11.

Offline FZ

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Re: Refrences of Bible removed from guns.
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2010, 02:58:18 PM »
It's a horrendous practice to put religious inscriptions on weapons used to kill people, that is unless you want this to be thought of as a religious war. Though it's kind of funny to imagine what other religions/non-religions might put on in their place:

Agnostics: "I don't know if there's a God, but I do know I'm going to shoot this person, and I really hope it goes well."

Well, someone better tell it to the other side, at least the other side  from my point of view, cause they see it as a religious  war?

I don't believe in agnostics. :lol:

Offline Debbie

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Re: Refrences of Bible removed from guns.
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2010, 05:24:43 PM »
Here we go again!


 

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