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Author Topic: High end homeless shelter  (Read 7540 times)

Offline essen

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2009, 09:11:34 PM »
I'm pretty sure these places were up on Craigslist for rent for a long time before this has happened. amandax is right. Anyone outraged by the thought of homeless people living in a swank condo should go walk around Crown Heights on a beautiful Saturday afternoon and wonder if they'd want to switch places with these homeless people and live in that neighborhood. If I were given the choice of having homeless people sleep on the sidewalk or live in a luxury apartment complex nobody else wants to live in, I'll take the latter. Since the place exists, it might as well be used. The $2700 figure is ludicrous though. The developer got a pretty sweet deal since I can't imagine anyone paying $2700/month to live there. I bet they could've haggled him lower, unless there's some homeless rental law I'm not aware of that requires the city to pay landlords $90/night per apartment. He probably has friends at Bushwick Economic Development Group.

Offline Harlan

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2009, 10:11:09 PM »
The $2700 figure is ludicrous though.

Just to clarify, again, that $90/day ($2700/month) apparently goes to the non-profit that administers the program, and includes job placement and housing-search programs for the homeless families, plus salaries for the non-profit's staff. The property owner is definitely getting less than $90/day per unit, although how much less, I have no idea, and neither does anyone else on this board.

Offline enigmacat

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2009, 11:17:13 PM »
Here's an article by Malcolm Gladwell on the cost of not housing the homeless versus housing the homeless.

It's a long read, but very interesting.

Offline essen

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2009, 12:03:59 AM »
Just to clarify, again, that $90/day ($2700/month) apparently goes to the non-profit that administers the program, and includes job placement and housing-search programs for the homeless families, plus salaries for the non-profit's staff. The property owner is definitely getting less than $90/day per unit, although how much less, I have no idea, and neither does anyone else on this board.

While I get what you're saying, to put things in one sort of perspective, I live off less than $2700/month and I don't consider myself impoverished. So regardless of exactly where that $90/day is going, that seems like an unnecessary amount of money to spend per apartment. That said, it does not say that there's a different rate depending on how many people are in the apartments, whether it's all families or if individuals are able to room together and it's still $90. But I do hope they are successful at rehabilitating these people.

Offline kempsternyc

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2009, 12:40:01 AM »
All of you who are judging this project without knowledge are playing into the tabloid journalism. Don't you question anything you read?


Well, conservatives didn't question the Iraq war for years. And I am sure they are happy about the hundreds of billions spent then. I mean...how many trillions did we go in debt during the Bush years. So why 2700 a month is upsetting to some surprises me. How much did these people howl during the Bush years?

Bill, come on...be honest. If we are spent money bombing people in a war that we didn't need to get into...why are you so upset about 2700 a month in Crown Heights?
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Offline neo11

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2009, 02:06:55 AM »
Well, conservatives didn't question the Iraq war for years. And I am sure they are happy about the hundreds of billions spent then. I mean...how many trillions did we go in debt during the Bush years. So why 2700 a month is upsetting to some surprises me. How much did these people howl during the Bush years?

Bill, come on...be honest. If we are spent money bombing people in a war that we didn't need to get into...why are you so upset about 2700 a month in Crown Heights?

I think the mistake many people make is turning everything into a liberal vs. conservative issue.  If one is against both the hundreds of billions spent on the Iraq war *and* the $2700/month on brand-new condos for the homeless in Crown Heights, what does that make them?

Offline casicua

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2009, 08:43:27 AM »
Or are you just unhappy because poor people get something nice for a change?

Seriously, think about your motivations and why you're outraged. What aspect of the story outrages you?

Not to really sound cold about it-but if my tax dollars are paying for it, then yes, that is partially why I am unhappy. I think that my tax dollars should be paying to fulfill the basic needs of homeless people, not to have them living in something that far above their basic necessities.

Aside from the fact that I think it's completely negligent use of government money, my other motivation is the fact that it is completely inefficient allocation of funds. For the amount of money they are paying, they could be housing more homeless people in less "high-end" or cheaper accommodations.

I feel like my tax dollars are not only paying for a frivolous luxury for homeless people, but also taking away from the help my tax dollars could be providing to more homeless people.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2009, 08:54:04 AM by casicua »

Offline casicua

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2009, 08:45:14 AM »
If one is against both the hundreds of billions spent on the Iraq war *and* the $2700/month on brand-new condos for the homeless in Crown Heights, what does that make them?

Financially responsible.

Offline Sweeper

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2009, 08:56:07 AM »
Here's an article by Malcolm Gladwell on the cost of not housing the homeless versus housing the homeless.

It's a long read, but very interesting.

It was an interesting article, but what conclusions do you draw from it?


Quote
Well, conservatives didn't question the Iraq war for years
Congratulations Kempster on winning the non-sequitur of the year award. :mrgreen:

Offline Harlan

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2009, 10:21:18 AM »
Not to really sound cold about it-but if my tax dollars are paying for it, then yes, that is partially why I am unhappy. I think that my tax dollars should be paying to fulfill the basic needs of homeless people, not to have them living in something that far above their basic necessities.

Aside from the fact that I think it's completely negligent use of government money, my other motivation is the fact that it is completely inefficient allocation of funds. For the amount of money they are paying, they could be housing more homeless people in less "high-end" or cheaper accommodations.

I feel like my tax dollars are not only paying for a frivolous luxury for homeless people, but also taking away from the help my tax dollars could be providing to more homeless people.

Thank you for the clear and honest response. I agree with you. The city should not be spending more money than necessary to help homeless people get off the streets and back to being productive members of society. I also am glad to see that you support the project of spending taxpayer dollars to assist the poorest and worst off.

What I'm puzzled about is how you know that the city is spending more money per family on this shelter than they are on other shelters. We know two things: the amount of money/night the city spends on housing and otherwise supporting families in this shelter (but not the amount they spend on similar services in other shelters), and that the complex has nice fixtures because it was originally intended to be quasi-luxury condos. This information doesn't allow us to conclude that the city is wasting money. It raises the question that the city may be wasting money, but it doesn't answer the question.

Offline casicua

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2009, 11:14:02 AM »
What I'm puzzled about is how you know that the city is spending more money per family on this shelter than they are on other shelters. We know two things: the amount of money/night the city spends on housing and otherwise supporting families in this shelter (but not the amount they spend on similar services in other shelters), and that the complex has nice fixtures because it was originally intended to be quasi-luxury condos. This information doesn't allow us to conclude that the city is wasting money. It raises the question that the city may be wasting money, but it doesn't answer the question.

Well- I do not know what the government spends on other shelters, so yes this could in fact be the median price.
The outrage from me, and it seems a few other people on this board, is that the government is dishing out $2700/Month for each apartment. I don't even live in a $2700/Month apartment, and I make a decent wage. It just doesn't make sense to me that a regular person can find an apartment for far cheaper, and the government is basically spending more than many of us working taxpayers do on apartments for the homeless.

With that said, if this is in fact close to the median cost that the government is dishing out for homeless housing, there is some serious need to re-evaluate spending for these programs.

Offline odenhal

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2009, 11:27:09 AM »
Well, conservatives didn't question the Iraq war for years. And I am sure they are happy about the hundreds of billions spent then. I mean...how many trillions did we go in debt during the Bush years. So why 2700 a month is upsetting to some surprises me. How much did these people howl during the Bush years?

Bill, come on...be honest. If we are spent money bombing people in a war that we didn't need to get into...why are you so upset about 2700 a month in Crown Heights?

wow,  :x if you cant make a good argument  :cry: just blame bush  :mrgreen:
you can not deny this gorgeosness, you can only hope to handle it

Offline enigmacat

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2009, 11:39:55 AM »
It was an interesting article, but what conclusions do you draw from it?

He makes the point that housing the homeless can be less expensive than not housing. Whether that's the case in this situation, who knows. We don't have enough information.

But I think that the extra information helps flesh out everyone's understanding, and makes for a better discussion.

Maybe we should petition the original news source for more facts?

Offline Harlan

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2009, 11:47:26 AM »
The outrage from me, and it seems a few other people on this board, is that the government is dishing out $2700/Month for each apartment.

Read the article again, please! That's not the case!

Quote
The city is paying Bushwick Economic Development Corp. $90 a night for each of the apartments, about $2,700 a month - a figure that also covers social services, housing help and job counseling designed to get families back on their feet.
(emphasis added)

Offline odenhal

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2009, 11:56:00 AM »
but isn't 2,700.00 a month more than many astorians take home pay,  for actually working .
you can not deny this gorgeosness, you can only hope to handle it


 

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