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Author Topic: So how much is this "stimulus" plan going to cost us?  (Read 5403 times)

Offline kempsternyc

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Re: NYC and economics Re: So how much is this "stimulus" plan going to cost us?
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2009, 07:44:03 PM »


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Your question was for the OP. But it was not tax cuts that disturbed me, it was the increased spending and deficit spending that were outrageous. Govt grows and grows too often outpacing economic realities.

I think it is a more interesting question of whether the tax cuts were targeted fairly or towards sustained economic growth.



The tax cuts should have been reined in when the Iraq war started....Remember all of the war spending has been completely off budget (passed by emergency resolutions) and added directly to the National Debt. And I would imagine that a true fiscal conservative (if there really is such a thing) would support that proposition.

As far as fairly targeted or towards sustained growth? I'm sure that everyone here would have a different opinion on that.
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Offline kempsternyc

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Re: So how much is this "stimulus" plan going to cost us?
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2009, 07:49:18 PM »
LOL....I love that game TRX...thanks for sharing......btw, the police started warning of 2000 dead New Yorkers a year when I slashed their budget in half and gave it all to libraries.....

Yeah, I'm a progressive....sue me.  :-D

I would do more damage to the lines conservatives love....but it is time to watch Olbermann and MAddow.....off to watch the two hour liberal lovefest....
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Offline Sweeper

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Re: So how much is this "stimulus" plan going to cost us?
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2009, 08:20:04 PM »
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The tax cuts should have been reined in
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Yeah, I'm a progressive....sue me

Why the redundancy?


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I would do more damage to the lines conservatives love

Do your worst...

Offline kempsternyc

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Re: So how much is this "stimulus" plan going to cost us?
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2009, 09:04:10 PM »
Why the redundancy?


Do your worst...

So the trillion dollar off budget war was okay?

I thought balancing the budget was a sonservative thing....and we were the free spenders.

Oh well....back to Rachel...
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Lord Goring "An Ideal Husband"

Offline Billz1981

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Re: So how much is this "stimulus" plan going to cost us?
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2009, 03:15:37 PM »
Did you oppose the budget breaking tax cuts of the Bush Era....and if not...why????????????????

You mean the action that Bush took that was demonstrably stimulative?  Those tax cuts?

Offline kempsternyc

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Re: So how much is this "stimulus" plan going to cost us?
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2009, 07:56:06 PM »
You mean the action that Bush took that was demonstrably stimulative?  Those tax cuts?

Or do I mean the tax cuts that were kept in place as we went into war? I'm pretty sure that's what I mean....

One thing though....and I want to throw this out to everyone....how much of the last few years growth was fack...based on swaps and CDOs and other instruments that had no real value....except for bankers who used them for bigger bonuses than they really deserved.
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Offline FZ

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Re: So how much is this "stimulus" plan going to cost us?
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2009, 11:02:22 PM »
Well, I know  what it's going to cost me and others  stuck in the middle who rarely used credit cards and lived within their means. It will  be people  like me who will have to bail out the mortgages  that never should have  been approved, which is  the crux of the problem. Shades  of  things to  come happned  last week to me. I have a small piece of property, and  as any good little  Marxist  in NYC will tell you, 'property is theft', unless  its' owned  by 'artists'  and people who agree with them.  :wink:  Anyway, it appears  I am being audited, funny thing is, several people  in this area I know, are also being audited and our only similarities it seems is we belong to  the Republican party, hmm? :?  I'm not getting Mickey Moore about it, but, it just seems odd, a couple of months after  the entire  state became a one party state with local newspapers  calling for the 'breaking of legs' of those  who may owe  taxes. So, what  have they come up with so far, the property  I own, given to me by my parents  in upstate  NY, which  I offered and received  a  'Designated Forrest' Tax break, was  not in 'compliance.' What was the 'non-complaince?' When you go into the program, you agree not to develop the land so it won't pollute drinking water for  NYC  in exchange  you get a partial tax break you have to apply some forms  every year with an updated  'thinning plan' where  fire hazard  trees are thinned  out. I did that  6 years ago and paid the tax. I got a letter  disputing the figure  I paid tax on, with a threat of an audit. Since, I can't find  what i paid, receipt, I either  pay the amount they want with a penalty, or they compound it every 30 days for starters. They sent this letter, dated  25 days  ago, this friday, I spent all weekend  looking for  the receipt, and Monday they are closed, effectively getting razor close  to 30 days  to answer. Yes, folks, one of many ways  those trying to maintain a small slice  of the American  dream, land ownership being  one, are being taken to the cleaners  to make America  safe  for  the deadbeats  and the flood of illegals. I have to admit, there is 'change'  in the air, I feel  a  chill.  :-(

Offline kempsternyc

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Re: So how much is this "stimulus" plan going to cost us?
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2009, 11:13:43 PM »
are being taken to the cleaners  to make America  safe  for  the deadbeats  and the flood of illegals. I have to admit, there is 'change'  in the air, I feel  a  chill.  :-(

I was actually interested until I read this.

One of those people huh?

(Actually, I had a lot more descriptive words...but I thought the MOD's might not like it)
I love talking about nothing father, it is the only thing I know anything about -

Lord Goring "An Ideal Husband"

Offline edhopper

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Re: So how much is this "stimulus" plan going to cost us?
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2009, 02:56:59 PM »
You mean the action that Bush took that was demonstrably stimulative?  Those tax cuts?

Could you show me how the 2 trillion dollar tax cut was stimulative.
From the information I read Bush had the slowest growth and the weakest job growth than any President since Hoover. A zero growth growth in the Markets. And pretty much any growth in income that happened went to the top 5%. He was also the first leader in history to cut taxes in wartime.
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2009/01/23/business/20090124_CHARTS_GRAPHIC.html

Offline TRX

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swine odor Re: So how much is this "" plan going to cost us?
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2009, 04:54:38 PM »
This here is not about the 'stimulus' but about all the other spending expected.
Is anyone familiar with ?

http://www.taxpayer.net/

Taxpayers for Common Sense

They say they are non-partisan and centrist.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aRVU5mcKP0oM&refer=home

 :evil:
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“Rather than focus on the pieces of the pie, the thing to do is to shrink the pie down.”

The projects, listed on more than 750 pages, include ... $1.8 million for swine odor and manure management research in Iowa
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Offline TRX

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Re: So how much is this "budget" plan going to cost us?
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2009, 12:19:19 PM »
I consider this very significant, and usually the govt is not very forward regarding budget matters. This is the start towards more honest budgeting.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/26/AR2009022600783.html?hpid=topnews

3.5+ TRILLION proposal
 :-o

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hxNsSwJHL9EJObAjj4qPX_ER166gD96JBTA81

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As he did in his speech to Congress on Tuesday night, Obama kept his focus on what he considers to be the right priorities: honest and open budgeting; investments in health, energy and education; and tax relief for middle-income families.

He compared the nation's budget woes to a family's, saying this is not a time to redecorate the house, but rather one when the foundation must be built.

"A budget is more than simply numbers on a page," Obama said. "It is a measure of how well we are living up to our obligations to ourselves and one another. It is a test of our commitment to making America what it was always meant to be: a place where all things are possible for all people."


If Obama would be sincere to end funding where govt. does not work as well as the private sector . . .
 :?
 :cry:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/

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It projects a $1.75 trillion deficit, representing 12.3% of GDP, which is the highest level since World War II.
...

This budget is very tough on those who earn more than $250,000 a year. Not only are they losing out on the Bush tax cuts in the next couple of years, but they also will see their tax bill go above that to pay for this new health care bill. Ironically, many people hurt by this are folks who live in the bluest of cities, including New York, DC, Boston, San Francisco, and Chicago.

« Last Edit: February 26, 2009, 12:36:21 PM by TRX »
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Offline Harlan

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Re: So how much is this "budget" plan going to cost us?
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2009, 02:33:27 PM »
This is the start towards more honest budgeting.

Yes, I am extremely happy that foreseeable expenditures will no longer be off-budget. In particular, the wars will no longer be treated as "emergency" funding. Equally interesting, the government will now budget for $20 billion/year in payments to states and localities for emergency funds for natural disasters, instead of pretending that we don't have any idea how much these things cost us! Now that's how you run a government!

Offline TRX

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Re: So how much is this "budget" plan going to cost us?
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2009, 03:03:31 PM »
Yes, I am extremely happy that foreseeable expenditures will no longer be off-budget.

Also curious -
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What about global warming?

The plan calls for at least $75 billion in revenues by 2012 from a so-called cap-and-trade system that requires companies to buy credits if they exceed greenhouse-gas limits.

<>

What happens next?

The plan moves to Congress, where initial reaction was split.

Republicans are expected to maintain their position, established during the recent stimulus debate, that Obama is calling for too much spending, a bigger federal government and insufficient tax cuts. Democrats will be supportive, but some will question whether the plan goes far enough on healthcare and taxing the rich.


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-obama-budget-qanda27-2009feb27,0,2672026.story
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Offline Sweeper

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Re: So how much is this "stimulus" plan going to cost us?
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2009, 07:53:48 PM »
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What about global warming?

The plan calls for at least $75 billion in revenues by 2012 from a so-called cap-and-trade system that requires companies to buy credits if they exceed greenhouse-gas limits.


I wonder if people understand where that money comes from? Essentially $75 Billion in rate hikes for what?

Offline Harlan

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Re: So how much is this "stimulus" plan going to cost us?
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2009, 10:06:37 PM »
I wonder if people understand where that money comes from? Essentially $75 Billion in rate hikes for what?

Most of the proposals I've seen are mostly revenue neutral. So, $75 B in energy rate hikes in exchange for $70 B in income tax cuts, with the balance going for green-energy R&D.

Plus, you can think of efforts to reduce CO2 emissions as being like an insurance policy. It replaces an unknown and potentially catastrophic risk with a much smaller and known cost.


 

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