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Author Topic: Forgiveness for Prop 8  (Read 2075 times)

Offline paratactical

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Forgiveness for Prop 8
« on: November 30, 2008, 12:20:37 AM »
I just wanted to share this site:

Forgiveness for 8

It's a website inviting LDS (Mormons) to share their requests for forgivenss from the LGBT community for the church's support for Prop 8.

The letters are incredibly moving and I hope that this site gets spread around so that we are all reminded that no members of a religion, gender, orientation or political party are all one way or another. It's really very moving to see these responses from the community and it makes me hope that one day the other members of their church will come to feel as these other Mormons do.

Offline enigmacat

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Re: Forgiveness for Prop 8
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2008, 07:23:45 PM »
wow - thank you so much for sharing this link!

Offline Picasso

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Re: Forgiveness for Prop 8
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2008, 08:58:17 PM »
too little, too late.

Offline paratactical

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Re: Forgiveness for Prop 8
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2008, 10:04:15 PM »
too little, too late.

You really can't blame the individuals.

There are several people who have posted to the site would could really be risking a lot in doing so (for example, one is a minister-or preacher or whatever they call them in LSD). While it would have been nice for such individuals to oppose it from the start, I still think it is brave to oppose it now.

Other posters talk about how they stood protesting Prop 8 and how they felt when their fellow church members saw them; other about being gay and out to a few of their congregation and being amazed and appalled at the discourse around Prop 8.

Long story short, at least read the link before you judge the people.

Offline JoeyC

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Re: Forgiveness for Prop 8
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2008, 12:04:04 AM »
Nothing to be forgiven for.  Mormons and voters have right to vote or feel as they please.

Offline enigmacat

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Re: Forgiveness for Prop 8
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2008, 12:24:26 PM »
actually most of the apologies are from mormons who disagreed with prop 8 but were afraid to speak up for fear of being judged by their church communities. i don't think i noticed any posts from mormons who vote for prop 8 and now regret it. from what i can tell, the site is run by and for lds members who are unhappy with their church's influence in that election.

Offline NYCMacUser

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Re: Forgiveness for Prop 8
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2008, 12:33:20 PM »
I, personally, am unhappy with any church/religious influence, to any extent, on any election!
Women are like teabags.
We don't know our true strength
until we are in hot water! â€”Eleanor Roosevelt

Offline Billz1981

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Re: Forgiveness for Prop 8
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2008, 05:53:52 PM »
Are there hard numbers on what impact LDS involvement had on the vote?

In other words, is it a foregone conclusion that the vote wouldn't have gone the same way without the infusion of LDS funds?  I read some articles suggesting that the opposition campaign was poorly organized, and that lack of organization, coupled with some of the demographics showing up for Obama could have been the real game changer.

Offline FZ

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Re: Forgiveness for Prop 8
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2008, 01:54:08 AM »
Gee, that's nice. Now, can someone  find  a link from a website where Muslims  are begging forgiveness and apologizing for  Muslims  executing  Gay People  in predominately  Muslim nations? Oh, wait,here's something..http://www.alterheros.com/english/dossier/Articles.cfm?InfoID=76

How about  Sean Penn  apologizing for  supporting Castro  and Chavez, two  dictators  who jail  people  with AIDS? Oh, that's right, Sean made  a movie  about the assassinated Mayor Of San Fran, Harvey Milk, so he gets  a 'pass?'  :|  I guess 'Nobody Listened' http://www.amazon.com/Nobody-Listened-Jorge-Ulla/dp/B0001Z4PKA  then and no one is listening now?  :-( It's  all 'PC'/Lefty feel good nonsense, with no sense of proportion. If I was really interested  in Prop 8, either way, and I'm only mildly interested, I would  make a deal with Gay Activists. I would support it's repeal and even advocate for Civil Unions with the same rights as marriage, if they joined  me in a Global Protest  against  the policies of  predominate  Muslim  and Communist  nations, on human rights, and Gay Rights in particular. Think Locally, Act Globally.. "Before Night Falls" ..   http://www.amazon.com/Before-Night-Falls-Reinaldo-Arenas/dp/0140157654  Right?  :wink: :-)

Offline Astoria Luv

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Re: Forgiveness for Prop 8
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2008, 09:35:42 AM »
Gee, that's nice. Now, can someone  find  a link from a website where Muslims  are begging forgiveness and apologizing for  Muslims  executing  Gay People  in predominately  Muslim nations? Oh, wait,here's something..http://www.alterheros.com/english/dossier/Articles.cfm?InfoID=76

Who mentioned anything about Muslims?  Again, you have taken a discussion in a direction that it does not need to go.  I think you take every opportunity you possibly can to express your hate against the groups that you don't like.  We would like to maintain a decent, respectful, and interesting discussion on Prop 8, but posts that are off-topic and/or baiting, often prevent this from happening.  I think as adults, we can disagree, reasonably, and do not need to resort to broad sweeping generalizations and hateful rhetoric.

Now to address your actual post: No one is defending any government or religion persecuting gay people.  In fact, if you would do your research, you would find many of the same LGBT civil right groups are doing work across the world.  However, our leadership, Republican and Democrat alike, has yet to take a firm stand against the very same crimes against humanity that have been committed by these countries.  In fact, one of the "Islamic" nations, Saudi Arabia, is a close ally of the United States and unless you can find proof to show otherwise, we have never publicly condemned the criminalization of homosexuals.  So, the US government is as culpable as the liberal left, in their complacency.

Are there hard numbers on what impact LDS involvement had on the vote?

In other words, is it a foregone conclusion that the vote wouldn't have gone the same way without the infusion of LDS funds?  I read some articles suggesting that the opposition campaign was poorly organized, and that lack of organization, coupled with some of the demographics showing up for Obama could have been the real game changer.

Billz, I think people immediately linked the large number of conservative, African American and Latino voters, who voted for Obama to the marriage ban.  However, upon further investigation the polls seemed to indicate that it was much more than their vote, although it probably did not help matters.

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/national/2008/12/04/poll-black-voters-not-responsible-for-passage-of-same-sex-marriage-ban-in-california.html

In terms of the LDS's actual influence, I'm not certain there are actual statistics, but it is not disputed that the LDS, along with other socially conservative churches formed a coalition and organized to vote for the ban. 

http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/california-and-same-sex-marriage
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oew-jacobs8-2008dec08,0,3004487.story

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles_of_faith/2008/11/mormons_facing_1.html




Offline plank

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Re: Forgiveness for Prop 8
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2008, 02:24:15 PM »

how about an apology from Mormons for believing in a bunch of bullshit made up by Joseph Smith.


Offline mcdirk

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Re: Forgiveness for Prop 8
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2008, 04:32:35 PM »
Are there hard numbers on what impact LDS involvement had on the vote?

In other words, is it a foregone conclusion that the vote wouldn't have gone the same way without the infusion of LDS funds?  I read some articles suggesting that the opposition campaign was poorly organized, and that lack of organization, coupled with some of the demographics showing up for Obama could have been the real game changer.

The Mormon church raised the majority of the money for the ads (very misleading ads I might add) that moved public opinion.  They also provided the field troops to do the door to door canvassing that identified and then turned out their voters on election day.  The No on 8 campaign was really very disorganized and didn't have a good messaging ability.  I'll see if I can find some links for you with documentation.  My mailbox has been inundated with all the post-mortems on this.

Offline 28Grand

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Re: Forgiveness for Prop 8
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2008, 01:10:41 PM »
If I was really interested  in Prop 8, either way, and I'm only mildly interested, I would  make a deal with Gay Activists. I would support it's repeal and even advocate for Civil Unions with the same rights as marriage, if they joined  me in a Global Protest  against  the policies of  predominate  Muslim  and Communist  nations, on human rights, and Gay Rights in particular. Think Locally, Act Globally.. "Before Night Falls" ..   http://www.amazon.com/Before-Night-Falls-Reinaldo-Arenas/dp/0140157654  Right?  :wink: :-)

Step right up -- there are several Muslims groups that would welcome your support in the fight for gay rights in the Isalmic world, including the Worker Communist Party of Iran. From their website:

All adults, women or men, are completely free in deciding over their sexual relationship with other adults. Voluntary relationship of adults with each other is their private affair and no person or authority has the right to scrutinise it, interfere with it or make it public.

http://www.m-hekmat.com/en/0600en.html


 

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