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Author Topic: Outrageous Gail Collins Column in NY Times  (Read 4206 times)

Offline enigmacat

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Re: Outrageous Gail Collins Column in NY Times
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2008, 02:14:51 PM »
It is interesting (and sad) that so many people apparently did read her literally. 

*cough*RushLimbaugh*cough*

Offline edhopper

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Re: Outrageous Gail Collins Column in NY Times
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2008, 04:56:41 PM »
I don't think it's outrageous for the New York Times, it's business  as usual.  :wink:  Of course these were the same  people  crying rivers  of tears for the Gitmo and Abu Ghraib terrorists, and for 8 years  denying Bush won in 2000, so why be surprised they want Bush out early, it wasn't 'their' President?  I didn't vote  for Obama, and will never, ever, vote for any democrat  as long as I live, and I'm not too sure of  the republicans, but,  he is  MY President, I hope he succeeds and I hope he  can get the bad guys  and  the economy gets  better  and I'm wrong about him. HappyThanksgiving. :-)

Uh...Bush lost the vote in 2000. He lost the national vote and he lost the vote in Florida. How dare the NY Times report the facts. Truly, truly outrageous.

Offline Sweeper

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Re: Outrageous Gail Collins Column in NY Times
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2008, 05:23:22 PM »
Uh...Bush lost the vote in 2000. He lost the national vote and he lost the vote in Florida. How dare the NY Times report the facts. Truly, truly outrageous.

I don't know why it keeps cropping up, but George Bush did not lose Florida.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/12/politics/12VOTE.html?ex=1228280400&en=35500fee0e46a164&ei=5070
Poorly made HBO specials aside, it is a highly damaging assertion that the election was not fair.

Offline Billz1981

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Re: Outrageous Gail Collins Column in NY Times
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2008, 05:50:03 PM »
I don't know why it keeps cropping up, but George Bush did not lose Florida.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/12/politics/12VOTE.html?ex=1228280400&en=35500fee0e46a164&ei=5070
Poorly made HBO specials aside, it is a highly damaging assertion that the election was not fair.

Aw, crap, I only have on thumb up to give you.

Offline edhopper

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Re: Outrageous Gail Collins Column in NY Times
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2008, 07:22:45 PM »
I don't know why it keeps cropping up, but George Bush did not lose Florida.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/12/politics/12VOTE.html?ex=1228280400&en=35500fee0e46a164&ei=5070
Poorly made HBO specials aside, it is a highly damaging assertion that the election was not fair.
Yeah right:
"But the consortium, looking at a broader group of rejected ballots than those covered in the court decisions, 175,010 in all, found that Mr. Gore might have won if the courts had ordered a full statewide recount of all the rejected ballots."
Only by not counting all the votes does Bush win.
From the University of Chicago which undertook the media recount.
Candidate Outcomes Based on Potential Recounts in Florida Presidential Election 2000
(outcome of one particular study)
Review Method    Winner
Review of All Ballots Statewide    
•     Standard as set by each county Canvassing Board during their survey    Gore by 171
•     Fully punched chads and limited marks on optical ballots    Gore by 115
•     Any dimples or optical mark    Gore by 107
•     One corner of chad detached or optical mark    Gore by 60
Review of Limited Sets of Ballots (initiated but not completed)    
•     Gore request for recounts of all ballots in Broward, Miami-Dade, Palm Beach, and Volusia counties    Bush by 225
•     Florida Supreme Court of all undervotes statewide    Bush by 430
•     Florida Supreme Court as being implemented by the counties, some of whom refused and some counted overvotes as well as undervotes    Bush by 493
Unofficial recount totals    
•     Incomplete result when the Supreme Court stayed the recount (December 9, 2000)    Bush by 154
Certified Result (official final count)    
•     Recounts included from Volusia and Broward only    Bush by 537
And he still lost the national election by half a million votes.
But, I'm sure your happy with the way the country has turned out under Bush.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2008, 07:30:33 PM by edhopper »

Offline Sweeper

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Re: Outrageous Gail Collins Column in NY Times
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2008, 07:54:39 PM »
Yeah right:
"But the consortium, looking at a broader group of rejected ballots than those covered in the court decisions, 175,010 in all, found that Mr. Gore might have won if the courts had ordered a full statewide recount of all the rejected ballots."
Only by not counting all the votes does Bush win.
From the University of Chicago which undertook the media recount.
Candidate Outcomes Based on Potential Recounts in Florida Presidential Election 2000
(outcome of one particular study)
Review Method    Winner
Review of All Ballots Statewide    
•     Standard as set by each county Canvassing Board during their survey    Gore by 171
•     Fully punched chads and limited marks on optical ballots    Gore by 115
•     Any dimples or optical mark    Gore by 107
•     One corner of chad detached or optical mark    Gore by 60
Review of Limited Sets of Ballots (initiated but not completed)    
•     Gore request for recounts of all ballots in Broward, Miami-Dade, Palm Beach, and Volusia counties    Bush by 225
•     Florida Supreme Court of all undervotes statewide    Bush by 430
•     Florida Supreme Court as being implemented by the counties, some of whom refused and some counted overvotes as well as undervotes    Bush by 493
Unofficial recount totals    
•     Incomplete result when the Supreme Court stayed the recount (December 9, 2000)    Bush by 154
Certified Result (official final count)    
•     Recounts included from Volusia and Broward only    Bush by 537
And he still lost the national election by half a million votes.
But, I'm sure your happy with the way the country has turned out under Bush.

I don't think anyone wants to go through this again, but those numbers are not based on what the laws were on election day 2000. They depend upon someone, other than voter, determining the intent of the voter. The facts are clear. Bush had more votes than Gore in Florida as the laws of Florida were written. As for the popular vote, it is wholly irrelevent. You may wish the laws were different. You may even petition your representative to change the law. Hell, you may even run for congress someday and start a drive to change the constitution. But as it stands, Al gore lost. All the rejected ballots in the world won't change that.

Offline Billz1981

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Re: Outrageous Gail Collins Column in NY Times
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2008, 01:44:47 PM »
But, I'm sure your happy with the way the country has turned out under Bush.

That's not the issue at question.


 

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