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Author Topic: Proposition 8 in California  (Read 9700 times)

Offline Jiggs

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2008, 12:10:57 AM »
Gee, I can remember when African-Americans were not allowed to vote . . . or go to integrated schools, or restaurants, or bathrooms. Sometimes the PEOPLE get it wrong.

Unless you're 120 years old, or lived in the FEW parts of South where they could not vote in 1950's, you are......full of....what's that word??? :-o

Offline casicua

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2008, 12:22:53 AM »
Unless you're 120 years old, or lived in the FEW parts of South where they could not vote in 1950's, you are......full of....what's that word??? :-o

Wow, I think you closed the debate with that one, and intelligently proved your side.  :mrgreen:

Offline 60decibels

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2008, 12:24:21 AM »
Unless you're 120 years old, or lived in the FEW parts of South where they could not vote in 1950's, you are......full of....what's that word??? :-o

I'm not old enough to remember those things, but my mother and father are, and they are in their early 70's.

Offline Jiggs

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2008, 12:44:00 AM »
I'm not old enough to remember those things, but my mother and father are, and they are in their early 70's.

Where??    If they are from New York, or you are, how about Astoria public schools being an awful place to be white, the robberies, the white people targeted on trains and buses....you know, all the stff no one wants to remmeber.  Instead we hear over and over about seperate water fountains in some southern towns.

Offline casicua

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2008, 01:04:00 AM »
Where??    If they are from New York, or you are, how about Astoria public schools being an awful place to be white, the robberies, the white people targeted on trains and buses....you know, all the stff no one wants to remmeber.  Instead we hear over and over about seperate water fountains in some southern towns.

The plight of the white man has really been tough throughout the years compared to the easy streets of the black folks. :roll:
(This post has been removed due to board violations.  [Daisy - Mod])
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 10:03:53 AM by daisy »

Offline Jiggs

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2008, 01:07:00 AM »
The plight of the white man has really been tough throughout the years compared to the easy streets of the black folks. :roll:
(If you're looking for the klan rally, it's about 1500 miles due south. Just look for the burning crosses, and the white hooded guys.)

This post has been removed due to board violations.  [Daisy - Mod]
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 10:01:57 AM by daisy »

Offline casicua

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2008, 01:08:57 AM »
This post has been removed due to board violations.  [Daisy - Mod]

Nope, I don't like it. But what you said is not fact, it's opinion (And a terrible one at that).
Now take out the kleenex, clean off the tears and give me a hug, friend. I'm not white though, is that ok?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 10:02:16 AM by daisy »

Offline Jiggs

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2008, 01:14:22 AM »
Nope, I don't like it. But what you said is not fact, it's opinion (And a terrible one at that).
Now take out the kleenex, clean off the tears and give me a hug, friend. I'm not white though, is that ok?

Not opinion, fact. I went to these schools in 1970's, and know first hand.  So do many others.    No tears, just truth.      And yes, you can have a hug. I'll cop a feel too sweetheart.   :oops:    I MEAN, WE'LL SHAKE HANDS, IN A MANLY WAY!   :-D

Offline Jiggs

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2008, 01:24:23 AM »
Oh oh.  Casicua?  You there?  ( I think I shocked him to death.  I hate when that happens)

Offline 60decibels

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2008, 02:15:21 AM »
Where??    If they are from New York, or you are, how about Astoria public schools being an awful place to be white, the robberies, the white people targeted on trains and buses....you know, all the stff no one wants to remmeber.  Instead we hear over and over about seperate water fountains in some southern towns.

It's not comparable. Not because it wasn't difficult for you - if you say it was, I'll take your word for it -  but because you were not oppressed or denied your civil rights by the government. This is why Prop 8 is ultimately unconstitutional in my opinion. No one can make you like gay people or attend a gay wedding. No one will be able to force a church to hold a gay wedding any more than I can compel a rabbi to give non-Jewish me a Jewish wedding. It's for the couple themselves to choose to get married and not other people to tell the government whether or not someone else can get married.

My parents grew up in Arkansas and Houston, TX and both had first-hand experience (as white people) with the Jim Crow laws which were not fully overturned until 1965. BTW, if you disagree what I'm writing, I would appreciate if you could do it without trying to invalidate my personal experiences.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 02:27:02 AM by 60decibels »

Offline AJTNYC

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2008, 02:39:29 AM »
This post has been removed due to board violations.  [Daisy - Mod]

Not cute Jiggs.  I am personally done with the reminders.  Name calling is against the board rules as you should very well know by now.  If you can't handle the discussion in an appropriate manner than do not participate. 


AJTNYC,
Mod
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 10:02:40 AM by daisy »

Offline TRX

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dinner in Rego Re: Prop 8 in Ca
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2008, 07:08:26 AM »
Anyone make the protest tonight?  I wanted to go, but had the Lesbian and Gay Democratic Club of Queens gala (way out in Rego Park).  Eager to hear how it went though.


Geez McD.  :roll:  When is there not a gala?


Newsday has some good coverage.
A good number of pissed off gays, with lots of signage. Like No More Mr Nice Gay.
Lots of outrage for the separation of church & state/IRS
Somewhat diverse. And a good number of pissed off car drivers in traffic.
Cops did an excellent job. (Another nice thing, forgot there is a street named Peter Jennings Way)


A cool thing about NY. When kids walking by ask what are they doing, the parents straight up answer that gays are fighting for their rights.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/ny-nygay1113,0,3360791.story
Life, Liberty, Happiness (pursuit of) and pasta

Offline daisy

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2008, 08:39:51 AM »
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=6238226&page=1

ABC news had a lot of coverage this morning.  This isn't the segment but it's what I could find.  Lots of people and crowds estimated at 5000.  More are planned for this weekend.

Offline casicua

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #43 on: November 13, 2008, 09:20:20 AM »
Not opinion, fact. I went to these schools in 1970's, and know first hand.  So do many others.    No tears, just truth.      And yes, you can have a hug. I'll cop a feel too sweetheart.   :oops:    I MEAN, WE'LL SHAKE HANDS, IN A MANLY WAY!   :-D

You know first hand your some specific experience you may have had- that is not universal fact. You may have seen some racism, but it wasn't government sanctioned.
That is the distinction there. You think that kind of racism doesn't exist today where (blacks/mexicans/muslims/asians- circle one a-la mad libs) are targeted for crime?

You are making ad-homenim attacks on people. You still have not addressed how you think that prop 8 is so much different than Jim Crow laws, you have simply tried to divert the argument to "you weren't alive back then" or "I experienced racism, so your point is invalid". Perhaps if you actually addressed the arguments, one would be more inclined to take you seriously.

And you could cop a feel on me if you want, but what's the point? we can't get married to show our true deep love for each other :wink: (nohomo)

Offline FZ

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2008, 01:42:43 AM »
For someone who is so hellbent against Muslims trying to impose their religious beliefs on other people, you sure are quick to jump to the defense of Christians when they do it...

From the San Fransisco Chronicle:
I am not against Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or any faith- what I am against is when people believe they try to impose those faiths on other people. This is America, and I am free to believe that I drink the body and blood of Christ, or need to Pray to Mecca, or should remain Kosher, or Marry a same sex partner without some other jackasses trying to make laws preventing me from doing so.

And as far as Obama- yes he is personally against gay marriage, but did vote against a Federal Marriage Amendment and opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996.
He also supported civil unions between gay and lesbian couples (Which, IMO, needs to go a step further) and stated that marriage between same-sex couples should be legitimized on the state level. I don't exactly agree with his standpoint on this, but it is leaps and bounds better than the McCain-Palin stance I saw, which supported a federal ban on gay marriage.

Well, for someone  who is 'hellbent' to ignore  the Islamic fascist  threat, you sure are quick to go after Christians  who want their values  represented   by using public, lawful voting.

I agree with you in having the freedom to practice  any religion  or not, without having some 'jack@$$' trying to  impose their values. But, when the  courts are used to usurp  a vote, aren't they imposing a  'value' on others?  If the arguement was  just the 'right'  for two adult folks to be  together, legally,  then Civil Unions  would be the way to go and I would   think most folks would  tolerate  such a solution. But, when it is called marriage  by the state, there will be other socio-political implications  put on churches and other groups from using the public  square. It is in fact  an imposition of  values  on others.


 

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