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Author Topic: Proposition 8 in California  (Read 9701 times)

Offline mcdirk

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2008, 10:56:10 PM »
Obama was  not in favor  of Gay  Marraige. I don't think you'll gain much support  using Keith Uberleft as a spokesman. I also wonder why Mormons  are targeted, after all, a Muslim Mosque, in the vicinity also lent it's support? The truth is  that the increase of African-American voters, many church goers, who gave Obama support, probably tipped  the scales in favor  of the prop 8. I think cursing and carry on and stomping on crosses  will not get this anywhere.

The mosques did not fundraise to spread the lies about LGBT folks on the airwaves.  The Mormons raised over $40 million to slander us.  I don't think the African-American vote made a big difference - they are  only 6% registered voters in California, and only 10% of those voting this year.  It didn't help, but I don't think they deserve a large amount of blame.  I think the folks who didn't bother to vote and those who actively participated in the smear campaign deserve the most criticism.

Offline casicua

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2008, 11:12:48 PM »
Obama was  not in favor  of Gay  Marraige. I don't think you'll gain much support  using Keith Uberleft as a spokesman. I also wonder why Mormons  are targeted, after all, a Muslim Mosque, in the vicinity also lent it's support? The truth is  that the increase of African-American voters, many church goers, who gave Obama support, probably tipped  the scales in favor  of the prop 8. I think cursing and carry on and stomping on crosses  will not get this anywhere.

For someone who is so hellbent against Muslims trying to impose their religious beliefs on other people, you sure are quick to jump to the defense of Christians when they do it...

From the San Fransisco Chronicle:
Quote
Months before the first ads would run on Proposition 8, San Francisco Catholic Archbishop George Niederauer reached out to a group he knew well, Mormons. Niederauer had made critical inroads into improving Catholic-Mormon relations while he was Bishop of Salt Lake City for 11 years. And now he asked them for help on Prop. 8, the ballot measure that sought to ban same-sex marriages in California. The June letter from Niederauer drew in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and proved to be a critical move in building a multi-religious coalition - the backbone of the fundraising, organizing and voting support for the successful ballot measure. By bringing together Mormons and Catholics, Niederauer would align the two most powerful religious institutions in the Prop. 8 battle.

I am not against Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or any faith- what I am against is when people believe they try to impose those faiths on other people. This is America, and I am free to believe that I drink the body and blood of Christ, or need to Pray to Mecca, or should remain Kosher, or Marry a same sex partner without some other jackasses trying to make laws preventing me from doing so.

And as far as Obama- yes he is personally against gay marriage, but did vote against a Federal Marriage Amendment and opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996.
He also supported civil unions between gay and lesbian couples (Which, IMO, needs to go a step further) and stated that marriage between same-sex couples should be legitimized on the state level. I don't exactly agree with his standpoint on this, but it is leaps and bounds better than the McCain-Palin stance I saw, which supported a federal ban on gay marriage.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 11:24:59 PM by casicua »

Offline Jiggs

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2008, 11:38:19 PM »
People voted, in four states. You lost.  Mainstream people are NOT in favor of homosexual marriage, the voters  have spoken.   I don't see any other people out protesting cause they lost.  Going after the Mormons is a disgrace, those people doing so should be jailed.  Protest is one thing, not accepting an election result is another.

Offline mcdirk

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2008, 11:48:41 PM »
People voted, in four states. You lost.  Mainstream people are NOT in favor of homosexual marriage, the voters  have spoken.   I don't see any other people out protesting cause they lost.  Going after the Mormons is a disgrace, those people doing so should be jailed.  Protest is one thing, not accepting an election result is another.

The civil rights of a minority should never be on the ballot for revocation, it's against the constitutional guarantee of equality for all people.  If interracial marriage was on the ballot, who knows, it could be revoked as well. there are certainly enough people who hate all sorts of minorities to vote away their equality.  It's just a terrible day for democracy when things like this happen. 

Offline casicua

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2008, 12:23:01 AM »
People voted, in four states. You lost.  Mainstream people are NOT in favor of homosexual marriage, the voters  have spoken.   I don't see any other people out protesting cause they lost.  Going after the Mormons is a disgrace, those people doing so should be jailed.  Protest is one thing, not accepting an election result is another.

You're right, so succumb to every wish of our elected Democrat President and the elected Democrat controlled congress and don't speak out when you disagree with their decisions. Deal?

Offline Jiggs

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2008, 12:49:32 AM »
You're right, so succumb to every wish of our elected Democrat President and the elected Democrat controlled congress and don't speak out when you disagree with their decisions. Deal?

It was not wish of polititios, it was the people, they voted. 

Offline casicua

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2008, 01:24:54 AM »
It was not wish of polititios, it was the people, they voted. 
Yep, and they also voted on the politicians that make laws for them... but that does not mean that we have to idly agree with everything those elected politicians say.
My point was not that you should agree with the Democrats or shut up, my point was that sometimes, we as a people have to stand up for what is right, even in the face of popular opinion.

Offline NYCMacUser

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2008, 06:12:12 AM »
People voted, in four states. You lost.  Mainstream people are NOT in favor of homosexual marriage, the voters  have spoken.   I don't see any other people out protesting cause they lost.  Going after the Mormons is a disgrace, those people doing so should be jailed.  Protest is one thing, not accepting an election result is another.
Gee, I can remember when African-Americans were not allowed to vote . . . or go to integrated schools, or restaurants, or bathrooms. Sometimes the PEOPLE get it wrong.
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Offline C-J

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2008, 07:37:12 AM »
Gee, I can remember when African-Americans were not allowed to vote . . . or go to integrated schools, or restaurants, or bathrooms. Sometimes the PEOPLE get it wrong.

Well said Mama MAC!

To Jiggs:  What exactly qualifies a person to be "mainstream?"   :lol:

Offline enigmacat

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2008, 08:11:28 AM »
People voted based on lies.

And if the end of slavery had been up for vote, we would still have plantations.

Offline paratactical

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2008, 09:21:52 AM »
I usually (okay, almost never, I mean the guy looked like he was creaming his pants every time he said Obama's name) don't like Kieth Olbermann.

But this video of his Special Comments on Prop 8 may have really made me change my mind about the guy.

Offline Jiggs

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2008, 12:08:08 PM »
Well said Mama MAC!

To Jiggs:  What exactly qualifies a person to be "mainstream?"   :lol:

Mainstream is term I hear media and liberals use when they are accusing Religious leaders or Conservative politicians of being away from "mainstream" when they ...oh, let's say oppose gay marriage.

As for slavery, there is no comparison, that is bullshit. Many Black people get pissed off when that comparison is made, to them it's an insult.   

Offline 28Grand

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2008, 12:27:22 PM »
Every state has laws that allow the break-up of families through divorce, which almost every religion condemns as a sin.

Where’s the outrage over the violation of this religious principle? Where are the protests, where are the referendums to outlaw divorce?

What I think is a disgrace is for religious institutions to interfere with the legislative process while paying no taxes.

There's supposed to be a separation of church and state for a reason. Criticism is made of people picking and choosing which tenents of their faith they wish to follow. When Religious institutions do so as well they deserve equal criticism.


Offline casicua

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2008, 01:12:40 PM »
As for slavery, there is no comparison, that is bullshit. Many Black people get pissed off when that comparison is made, to them it's an insult.   

Slavery is not a fair direct comparison. A fair comparison would be segregation, or Jim Crow ("Seperate but equal") laws.

I'd also like to point out that I don't think anyone on this thread compared this to slavery, but segregation- two very distinctly different things in American history.

Offline mcdirk

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2008, 11:41:44 PM »
Anyone make the protest tonight?  I wanted to go, but had the Lesbian and Gay Democratic Club of Queens gala (way out in Rego Park).  Eager to hear how it went though.


 

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