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Author Topic: Proposition 8 in California  (Read 9703 times)

Offline mcdirk

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Proposition 8 in California
« on: November 11, 2008, 12:22:36 PM »
I've been following the aftermath of the passage of this terrible proposition (banning same sex marriages in California, seeking to overturn the California constitutional protections against equality for all people).  It's been terribly upsetting that this could pass on the same day we elected our wonderful new President, and in a state he carried easily. 

The LGBT community and our allies are mobilizing to fight for marriage equality and many are seeking to hold the Mormon Church responsible for their huge preponderance of the funding for two of the three anti-LGBT marriage amendments that passed on November 4.  There is a huge protest outside the Mormon Temple called for tomorrow night (Wednesday 11-12-08).  I'll post the details in a bit.

I found this link and thought it was moving and wanted to share it.

http://www.davidmixner.com/2008/11/keith-olbermanns-powerful-and-moving-statement-on-proposition-8.html 

Anyone else following this issue and the protests in California in the amendment's aftermath?

Offline casicua

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2008, 12:35:32 PM »
I've been following loosely, and frankly, the fact that this is even still an issue just makes me angry.
Who the F is trying to destroy anyone's marriage values???
If these stupid fundie A-holes are so worried about marriage values, they should try to outlaw divorce first.

Offline enigmacat

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Offline C-J

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2008, 12:49:39 PM »
Keith Olbermann had a great commentary on this last night.  McDirk posted the link to the video but you  can read the full transcript here:  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27650743

I will be at the protest tomorrow night!

Offline mcdirk

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2008, 12:54:44 PM »
I've been following loosely, and frankly, the fact that this is even still an issue just makes me angry.
Who the F is trying to destroy anyone's marriage values???
If these stupid fundie A-holes are so worried about marriage values, they should try to outlaw divorce first.

Give them time, just give them time.  Some of them have this idea of "covenant marriages" where divorce is very difficult to achieve.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_marriage

Offline essen

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2008, 01:17:27 PM »
Obama should push through civil unions with full marriage-type legal benefits for the entire country. The Defense of Marriage Act should be done away with (which apparently he's said he wants to do, so great!). I think that would be a good start, and I don't think a civil rights issue like this should be left up to the states. But start with civil unions. Leave marriage as a religious ceremony between a man and a woman so the evangelicals don't have to get so angry about "marriage" being desanctified. Fine. But, as far as the federal government is concerned, there should be no difference between a marriage and a civil union.

Offline daisy

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2008, 01:40:06 PM »
That's the thing.  Plenty of heterosexuals get married in nonreligious ceremonies and their marriages are never questioned by anyone.  It's still called a "marriage".  It's not a "civil union".  So why are heterosexuals the only ones supposedly allowed to use this word?

This sanctioning of discrimination by the voters in Florida, Arizona, and California is despicable and a sad comment on our society.  There's a long way to go, and I stand with you!

Offline PDQ Fruitbat

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2008, 01:49:31 PM »
Prop 8 Protest in New York at Mormon Temple AGAINST HATE

Wednesday, November 12, 2008

6:30pm - 8:00pm

Location: New York Manhattan Mormon Temple, 125 Columbus Ave at 65th Street

Tens of thousands of our brothers and sisters are in the streets in California and Salt Lake City and around the country protesting the votes banning same-sex marriage in California.

Join them! Make your voices heard right here in New York City.

Tell the Mormon Church how we feel about its relentless campaign to condemn and control our lives. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was, by far, the biggest financer of California's heinous and hateful Proposition 8. The Mormon Church begged their members to donate money to Prop 8, pouring 20 million dollars into the campaign. And their attacks on us didn't start there and aren't about to end. They're plotting right now to bring their money and influence to bear against the LGBT community everywhere in this country, including trying to prevent marriage equality in New York.

Join us in speaking out against hate and discrimination! Stop them taking away your rights!

PEACEFUL DEMONSTRATION - BRING SIGNS -- ALERT THE MEDIA

Offline enigmacat

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2008, 01:54:17 PM »
Yeah ... 17 year olds get married because they are pregnant, older women get married because they are anxious to have babies, some people marry just for financial or social stability, some people marry for citizenship ... all of those marriages are considered valid. No one suggests that they are a threat to marriage as an institution or that they should be prevented from getting married (except for the citizenship one).

I do think he should push civil unions rather than marriages just because it is far more likely to pass.

Offline C-J

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2008, 02:43:05 PM »
That's the thing.  Plenty of heterosexuals get married in nonreligious ceremonies and their marriages are never questioned by anyone.  It's still called a "marriage".  It's not a "civil union".  So why are heterosexuals the only ones supposedly allowed to use this word?

This sanctioning of discrimination by the voters in Florida, Arizona, and California is despicable and a sad comment on our society.  There's a long way to go, and I stand with you!

Amen to that Daisy!  I openly refer to my partner as my husband even though we only have a domestic partnership through the City (which ironically cost $1 more than an actual marriage license!).  I look forward to the day when our love gets the tax breaks and other perks that everyone else gets just by being born.

Offline enigmacat

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2008, 02:48:32 PM »
And come to think of it, no one seems to be worried about the threat that domestic violence poses towards the institution of marriage. I think that's a pretty big honking threat, myself.

Offline essen

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2008, 04:25:41 PM »
Yeah ... 17 year olds get married because they are pregnant, older women get married because they are anxious to have babies, some people marry just for financial or social stability, some people marry for citizenship ... all of those marriages are considered valid.

No kidding. But apparently these people don't give a s___ what people do in their marriages, how many times a person gets married, or how many divorces there are, just as long as it's not the gay people marrying each other. So let them keep their marriage while giving everyone the option of civil unions. And you can bet there'd be a whole new market created just for "civil union ceremonies" (would they still be called weddings if it's not a marriage?), and eventually I think more non-religious straight people would start drifting towards civil unions also. It's a win-win.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 04:32:15 PM by essen »

Offline casicua

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2008, 04:50:53 PM »
You know what really pisses me off?
The fact that I am reading up on the Prop8 Supporters for some perspective, and their central argument focuses on the notion that their kids will be taught in school that Gay Marriage is the same as heterosexual marriage. You know what- There was a time when parents feared that kids would be taught in school that black people are the same as white people. These people need to stop cramming their stupid "values" down everyone else's throats.

Some other fact/fiction from http://www.noonprop8.com/:
Quote
Fiction: Prop 8 doesn’t discriminate against gay people.

    * Fact: Prop 8 is simple: it eliminates the rights for same-sex couples to marry. Prop 8 would deny equal protections and write discrimination against one group of people—lesbian and gay people—into our state constitution.

 

Fiction: Teaching children about same-sex marriage will happen here unless we pass Prop 8.

    * Fact: Not one word in Prop 8 mentions education. And no child can be forced, against the will of their parents, to be taught anything about health and family issues at school. California law prohibits it.

      California’s top educators including Superintendent of Schools Jack O’Connell and California Teachers all agree: Prop 8 has nothing to do with education.

 

Fiction: Churches could lose their tax-exemption status.

    * Fact: The court decision regarding marriage specifically says “no religion will be required to change its religious policies or practices with regard to same-sex couples, and no religious officiant will be required to solemnize a marriage in contravention of his or her religious beliefs.”

 

Fiction: A Massachusetts case about a parent’s objection to the school curriculum will happen here.

    * Fact: California gives parents an absolute right to remove their kids and opt-out of teaching on health and family instruction they don’t agree with. The opponents know that California law already covers this and Prop 8 won’t affect it, so they bring up an irrelevant case in Massachusetts.

 

Fiction: Four Activist Judges in San Francisco…

    * Fact: Prop 8 is about eliminating a fundamental right. Judges didn’t grant the right, the constitution guarantees the right. Proponents of Prop 8 use an outdated and stale argument that judges aren’t supposed to protect rights and freedoms. Prop 8 is about whether Californians are willing to amend the constitution for the sole purpose of eliminating a fundamental right for one group of citizens.

 

Fiction: If Prop 8 isn’t passed, people can be sued over personal beliefs.

    * Fact: California’s laws already prohibit discrimination against anyone based on race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation. This has nothing to do with marriage.

 

Fiction: Pepperdine University supports the Yes on 8 campaign.

    * Fact: The University has publicly disassociated itself from Professor Richard Peterson of Pepperdine University, who is featured in the ad, and has asked to not be identified in the Yes on 8 advertisements.

 

Fiction: Unless Prop 8 passes, California parents won’t have the right to object to what their children are taught in school.

    * Fact: California law clearly gives parents and guardians broad authority to remove their children from any health instruction if it conflicts with their religious beliefs or moral convictions.

Offline enigmacat

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2008, 05:01:45 PM »
What would Jesus do?

Tell blatant lies to advance his agenda, apparently. Isn't that bearing false witness?

I wish there was an unignorable way to call them out on it. A big giant finger pointing from the sky and a booming voice. "You fuckin lied  to hurt other people and you are so going to hell!"

Offline FZ

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Re: Proposition 8 in California
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2008, 10:36:51 PM »
I've been following the aftermath of the passage of this terrible proposition (banning same sex marriages in California, seeking to overturn the California constitutional protections against equality for all people).  It's been terribly upsetting that this could pass on the same day we elected our wonderful new President, and in a state he carried easily. 

The LGBT community and our allies are mobilizing to fight for marriage equality and many are seeking to hold the Mormon Church responsible for their huge preponderance of the funding for two of the three anti-LGBT marriage amendments that passed on November 4.  There is a huge protest outside the Mormon Temple called for tomorrow night (Wednesday 11-12-08).  I'll post the details in a bit.

I found this link and thought it was moving and wanted to share it.

http://www.davidmixner.com/2008/11/keith-olbermanns-powerful-and-moving-statement-on-proposition-8.html 

Anyone else following this issue and the protests in California in the amendment's aftermath?

Obama was  not in favor  of Gay  Marraige. I don't think you'll gain much support  using Keith Uberleft as a spokesman. I also wonder why Mormons  are targeted, after all, a Muslim Mosque, in the vicinity also lent it's support? The truth is  that the increase of African-American voters, many church goers, who gave Obama support, probably tipped  the scales in favor  of the prop 8. I think cursing and carry on and stomping on crosses  will not get this anywhere.


 

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