Nods Updated - Now displaying + and - separately

[merm]

The "nod" system has been updated to now display all votes made for any post + or -. This was suggested earlier as a way to provide better insight into the response an individual post is getting positive AND negative.

[mcgowan]

I like the change.  Is there anyway to create a button someone can hit to see who had nodded and which way?

[kidderek]

I think it's an improvement.  however, I would probably say that it's better to just leave positive nods and do away with negative.  That way there are no hard feelings for the sensitive people.

[PJ]

nice update,, im sure people on here will still find a way to complain somehow

[Starwind51]

The "nod" system has been updated to now display all votes made for any post + or -. This was suggested earlier as a way to provide better insight into the response an individual post is getting positive AND negative.

Didn't it say that before?  Or does this mean that you can't pos nod out a neg nod, that nods are permanent?

[AJTNYC]

Didn't it say that before?  Or does this mean that you can't pos nod out a neg nod, that nods are permanent?

No Starwind....there is now a counter underneath the pos nod button and neg nod button to keep a tally of the number of pos and neg nods a post gets.  That feature was never there before. 

[PJ]

the next update should have the names of the people who neg or pos nod that post, now that will be interesteing

[buddy]

I like the change.  It helps to see both positions instead of the prevailing one.

[duska3419]

I think it's better than it was.

[Pulled pork]

Can we please get rid of the nods. It;s just a way of giving opinion anonymously. Mostly for those who want to hide. We've all done it but really it's a waste.

[NYCMacUser]

Have you seen how many people are complaining about all the neg nodding going on all over the forum for absolutely no reason? It is really shameful that this is being allowed. Can't SOMETHING be done to either stop it or to totally eliminate the nods completely. If someone has something to say, let them post. Enough is enough!

[edava]

Maybe  someone is trying to make the point that the whole nodding thing is just stupid, ridiculous and isn't helpful or contributes to any sort of intelligent conversation, it's just a passive aggressive way of saying F-U or negging certain people, so...they're going around negative nodding everyone, whether it makes sense or not. And no, it's not me negative nodding everyone.  :-P

[essen]

Why the heck do we still have these things?

[NYCMacUser]

Why the heck do we still have these things?

You'll never get a satisfactory answer! I HATE the damned things!

[essen]

I may not get an answer, but at least I got some nods!

[mcgowan]

umm just a thought, but it might just be because more people seem to like them than don't.  They may not keep expressing the opinion again and again and again because they think it is dead issue. 

Just a thought

[Harlan]

There's certainly a majority who like the positive nods. It's unclear if there's a majority in support of negative nods.

In any case, merm is going to run the board the way he likes. It's not a democracy. Fair enough. Negative nods are a large contributing factor to this board being less enjoyable and less useful to me than it was in the past. I don't support the board financially because of his decision on this issue, and I hide the ads that make him money.

[essen]

umm just a thought, but it might just be because more people seem to like them than don't.  They may not keep expressing the opinion again and again and again because they think it is dead issue. 

Just a thought

Was that just a thought?

And yeah, Harlan.. agreed.

[NYCMacUser]

In any case, merm is going to run the board the way he likes. It's not a democracy. Fair enough. Negative nods are a large contributing factor to this board being less enjoyable and less useful to me than it was in the past. I don't support the board financially because of his decision on this issue, and I hide the ads that make him money.

Brilliant idea. absolutely brilliant!

[Alison]

ohmygod I still don't get why people get so bent about nods.

I mean, I've read the "it doesn't add anything meaningful to the discussion" argument, and I get that. I really do. But maybe the type of person who neg nods and then says nothing is kind of the board equivalent of someone sitting in the corner of the room, not taking part in a discussion anyway and apathetically saying "laaaaaame." Does anyone bother paying that guy any mind? Does his opinion really matter? I mean, sure, I'll roll my eyes at that guy but I'm not gonna be all, "Dude, what do you MEEEEAN? Share!" Frankly, if that's all he has to say, I really couldn't care less.

And it's to the point where when someone gets a neg nod, they're all "uh, I don't get why I got a neg nod!" and then people neg nod that because it's kind of like when you're a kid your little sister finds something trivial that annoys you so she keeps doing it, and then you get more annoyed and are all "DUDE!" and then someone might neg nod that because you're talking about neg nods in a thread that has nothing to do with them, and then it happens again and again and again and it's a cycle of nothingness. And it still doesn't matter.

So, to sum up, who cares about the lame dude and/or little annoying sister? Meh.

(Or, the person who may have accidentally clicked on the thumbs down thingie. I think I've done that at some point. Whoops.)

[billyboy]

Great post, which demonstrates why I can't stand these things, positive or negative.  You took the time, thought and energy to compose an actual post that expresses a real opinion.  Good job!  That's what message boards are all about.  I don't like the whole nod system because it demonstrates a sort of intellectual laziness that runs rampant on the web.  Forget about the grade-school level of popularity contests and such, which is also a large part of why I can't stand these things.  It's just laziness.  I'm here to share points of view/information/opinions ... not determine whether that omniscient you plural of nodness likes me or not. 

It's not so much a matter of "who cares" -- take your logic a step further.  If that's your attitude -- and it's pretty much mine, too -- why have them at all?  Some people have made it clear they really don't like these things, and it's pretty clear they get bombed with neg nods on a regular basis, for reasons I'm guessing are personal beefs going way back, as opposed to the matter at hand.  For the life of me, what good do these things serve?  What logical points are there in having them?  They express nothing valid.  Half the time, it's clear, they're dropped as part of some wise-ass prank. 

It looks to me like posting traffic has slowed to a near crawl on this board, and I can't help think this is one of the larger reasons why.  I know with any message board, there are unseen forces churning in the background -- turf wars, personal fall-outs, all sorts of fun stuff that recalls the high-school cafeteria.  But I have to believe the nonsensical, pointless use of the nod system is a contributing factor.  If it's really a "who cares/meh" issue ... why have them at all?

[Harlan]

It looks to me like posting traffic has slowed to a near crawl on this board, and I can't help think this is one of the larger reasons why. 

Alexa.com thinks time-on-site here has dropped 18% in the last 3 months, and traffic rank has fallen by more than half a million places. Undoubtedly the owner of this board has better stats himself, but I'd challenge him to prove that this site has been a success recently.

[mcgowan]

So your logic leads you to believe that it is the NODS that (may have) decreased traffic on the site? 

Seriously?

I went from checking the site for new and relevent discussions daily to maybe once or twice a week, largely because I see the same arguments again and again.  Such as, "I hate the *&%$ nods, why do we have them?"
 

[TRX]

So here we are, again. If you have to revisit.   :-(   :|   :-)
First, Alison's posting was one of the best laughs I had on the board in some time.   :-D

Two, each person's interaction is personal. So for me, no nod is worth it to lose a possible Harlan posting.
Still, it seems a fair question what makes Astorians a success and is it now more or less of one. The idea of a metric is understandable. But the suggestion or info from Alexa was not helpful to me. Really find Alexa misleading and not trustworthy.
I would be more curious about year over year. Also, there is thankfully more and better competition among sites in Astoria.

For myself and some others, this site is very similar whether with or without nods. I find it no more no less a 'success'.
How is the ad traffic and ad revenue. I dont care.
In some ways, the site seems less annoying than in the past. But in others, it is less entertaining.
Could be for many reasons. We are not at the same site as it used to be, not in the same river that was flowing before, and the world is different.

I expect though things will improve in the coming months.
Here's hoping.

(by the way, mlb.com should see a jump in Alexa soon.)

[essen]

I went from checking the site for new and relevent discussions daily to maybe once or twice a week, largely because I see the same arguments again and again.  Such as, "I hate the *&%$ nods, why do we have them?"

Well, it doesn't help when the nods themselves might very well be killing threads where an actual discussion might've taken place if the nod feature were not there. Keep in mind that everyone is welcome to start their own interesting discussion if discussing nods isn't your cup of tea. Unfortunately, people who don't like nods don't have the option of not having them on their posts; they only have the option of not posting.

I think the people who have met me probably get my tone here, in that I'm not sitting here huffing and puffing about this stuff, but I like analyzing random things. To have these nods on a discussion board seems counterproductive, and unless merm goes ahead and makes a new rule that bans the discussion of nods, it's going to keep coming up. Sorry, mcgowan.

[merm]

Well, here we are again, nothing has really changed. The same few vocal members dislike the nods, a few like them, and the majority don't seem to care.

I didn't start this site in order to become a big mega-site. I don't consider it a business, it does not "cash flow". Given that the site is geographically limited, the participation rate is actually quite good in the community. I still feel the site is helpful in providing information for residents, and facilitating people getting to know their neighbors. Even if the site had dropped in users I wouldn't be concerned because building traffic really isn't the point. That being said, Alexa is notoriously bad at measuring traffic, especially for small sites.

While I (and the moderators) are open to discussion on the rules, features, and really anything about the site - there comes a point that once it's been demonstrated several times, through multiple discussions, that the community at large is either neutral or supportive of the nods that I am not likely to make a change I don't see necessary. There are a lot of things about this site that individuals and small groups of people don't like - but it's impossible to keep all users perfectly happy.

For the few people that do not like the nods there are simple individual options in place to deal with them. You could ignore them, you could use a greasemonkey or other script to hide them, or you could simply stop using this website. You could also set up your own forum and not have nods on it. There are so many ways to not have them be such a bother.

I learned long ago that this site isn't going to be everything for everyone, and not everyone uses the site the same way. I have many emails and PM's, and web analytics data to attest to that. Sincerely though, if the nods create such a negative experience for you that you must leave, then I respect your decision.

[AJTNYC]

I don't like the whole nod system because it demonstrates a sort of intellectual laziness that runs rampant on the web. 

I shudder to think of how you must feel about the emoticons... :-X

Undoubtedly the owner of this board has better stats himself, but I'd challenge him to prove that this site has been a success recently.

Not sure what point you are trying to make with this offer to duel.  You can't establish a correlation between a drop in usage and the nod feature.  In fact, everytime this mundane issue pops up it seems that the majority of members either like or are unaffected by the nod feature.  Yeah, sometimes we have to experience the occasional asshole no point to my neg nod nodder.  Why unravel over this?  And yes, intellectual laziness is not something to strive for, or something I even find attractive, but what might be viewed as intellectual laziness to one may just be a simple expression of agreement or disagreement to another.  Not every post necessitates a brilliant response or explanation as to why you agree or disagree with something that may be succinctly stated. 

As to the talk about posting slowing down to a near crawl on this site....I must be moderating in the twilight zone cause I haven't noticed this at all.             

[billyboy]

You're joking, right, about "not noticing at all"?  You have boards with (often far) less than a handful of active threads where you once had 10-12 in play at any given time of day.  Not meant as an insult -- and I'm not sure what's happened here.  :killme:

Mcgowan, my logic makes sense.  Let's say you have a thread with 10 posts.  Within those 10 posts, there are 18 nods of various sorts.  I doubt all 18 of those nodders felt compelled to post.  Let's say a third might if they didn't have the nod option.  Six new posts, of which all generate responses.  A thread with 10 posts doubles in size.  Readers have their eye drawn to a much more active thread and decide to contribute.  You get people who post and are bombed with negative nods, they're simply less likely to post.  They're either going to quit eventually or fall in with that silent, massive majority that never posts on any given message board.

I can see the point of nods in physically demonstrating to readers that posts are being read, positive or negative, but readers don't need to know that information.  It's pretty obvious when a thread is healthy and when it isn't.

Merm, you'd probably have more insight into what's going on here -- I'm sure it's much more than nods.  But, come on, it's painfully obvious that something's off here.

[merm]

Here are a few things that are going on (not an exhaustive list):

• I used to advertise Astorians on Google and Yahoo using paid search. I stopped doing that about 12 months ago.
• The site is most active during the summer months, we've just come through the winter.
• The site is registering slightly less new users, but the number of new posts has actually gone up. The number of posts overall has gone down admittedly. But that's more a function of the fact that during the highest traffic months in the past the LPW and 3 words threads were the most active. They are less active now. Those threads alone have a significant impact on the overall number of posts on the site.
• Freeze Peach and other local cafes who's communities used to post on the board are doing less since those places have gone out of business.
• Every company that I have consulted for has seen a drop in traffic over the last 18 months. Surfing behavior in aggregate has changed. Fewer people ending up on the site looking for bars, clubs, coffee shops etc. (Which is why local businesses are closing down).
• Last but not least, the nods were introduced in November of 2006, and every site metric has actually gone up since then.

I'm not convinced at all that nods are a major contributor or detractor from traffic, any more than say, the LPW thread. The strongest arguments for or against the nods in my opinion are based on personal user experience, and I've said before that I think there are valid points on both sides.

[kempsternyc]

I guess that there are two things that frustrate me about the nods.

One is that when I make a complicated reply to a post, I am left to wonder why I am being Neg Nodded. Do you disagree with the entire post...or is there a specific point you disagree with. Maybe this is not a site intended to facilitate debate. And I say that not to attack, but to understand. But I am at times left to wonder at the neg nod.

There was another time, in a bit of a heated Barnes and Noble thread, that it seemed that there was one person that would neg nod every post I made. Not sure if that is true or not, but that is the way I felt.

Do I feel the same way at the Pos nods....obviously not.....because they don't resonate as much. Psychologically, I am not sure of what to make of it....but it is the way I feel. And it does lead, even though it is not what was intended, to a negative experience. 

[kempsternyc]

And it does lead, even though it is not what was intended, to a negative experience. 

As a clarification....I did not mean this to mean All the time.

One thing is certain, I am not going to stop reading this site or responding because of a few Neg Nods.....All I am saying is that at times it annoys the s___ out of me and when it does, I will call it out. Because I think if you disagree with me, it is cowardly to hide behind a button. But all said and done....It's not the end of the world.

[daisy]

Exactly.  It's not the end of the world.  I may not like the nods all that much either, but I've learned that there are many reasons they are given, and it would be a waste of my time trying to dissect it all.  I made up my mind long ago to just ignore them, and this is pretty darn easy for me to do, once I've put my mind to it.  You can't please everyone all the time.  I never saw this site as a competition, and the whole notion of a challenge...I mean, come on.  How old are we? 

I'm one of the moderators here too, and no, I have not noticed a substantive drop in usage here.  It goes up and down all the time.  In fact, I haven't been on since mid day yesterday and now I have a whole bunch of posts to read through, and it seems like a lot to me.  Every time I go on a 5 day vacation, I come back to 6 or more pages of unread posts, and that hasn't changed either.  I really don't have time to go through them all either.  You know, people do move on.  Perhaps they are too busy with Facebook and trying to find a job or pay their bills, or on any number of sites out there since social networking and interactivity blew up.  The internet scene changes every day.  People also use this site for different reasons.  For me, it's primarily a site where one can ask questions about Astoria, and find out about the latest restaurant, bar, store, etc.  I've met a lot of really nice people from this board, and it's helped me explore my community.  I'm not here to debate with people and I really don't have the time, nor need the stress.  If I don't like something, I ignore it, or I move on.  This nod issue has been discussed to death, and the low potshots to the mods from some members are getting old.  Not everything about this site is going to please everyone and it shouldn't have to.  Like Kempster said, when all is said and done, it's not the end of the world. 

[essen]

Like Kempster said, when all is said and done, it's not the end of the world. 

Well, no. Chances are, there's nothing anyone can do about the end of the world whenever it might happen. Nods are a silly triviality, easily avoidable, easy to complain about.

[daisy]

They are also easily ignored.

[essen]

They are also easily ignored.

Says you.

[kempsternyc]

Well, no. Chances are, there's nothing anyone can do about the end of the world whenever it might happen.

I just meant the end of my world. I didn't mean some sort of Christianist Armageddon sort of Left Behind crap.

[TRX]

I rarely miss the nods. Hopefully most are finding the board as welcoming as ever.
 
    
 

[Speebs]

I miss the nods.  There was something fulfilling about seeing whether people had a similar reaction as mine.