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Author Topic: Body Of War  (Read 7741 times)

Offline AlexNYC

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Body Of War
« on: April 12, 2008, 11:00:41 AM »
Body Of War is a documentary of Tomas Young, a young man who joined the military 2 days after 9/11 to go to Afghanistan to fight against those who attacked us. Instead he was sent into Iraq and was shot his first week there and became paralysed. This film documents the exaggerations and lies given by Bush and congress as reasons for going into Iraq, and shows the devastating impact the severe injury has had on Tomas Young physically and emotionally. The film is currently being shown at the IFC theater on Sixth Avenue and 4th Street in Greenich Village. Below is a link to the film with a trailer. I highly recommend everyone who cares about what our troops are going through to see this film.

http://www.bodyofwar.com/

Offline duska3419

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2008, 05:51:39 PM »
I highly recommend everyone who cares about what our troops are going through to see this film.
http://www.bodyofwar.com/

Why? What good is watching a movie going to do? Anyone who cares, already knows all the bad stuff. It's not going to bring about a solution.

Offline TRX

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2008, 04:15:51 AM »

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Out_of_Iraq_Congressional_Caucus



You may recognize a few members of Congress at the link.
Thank you for your support.
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Offline AlexNYC

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2008, 08:17:54 PM »
Duska, alot of people care but they are still oblivious of the realities of what the troops actually go through. The Bush administration has disallowed the media to take photos of the coffins coming home for all these years. If we don't get to actually see the fallen and the injured to remind us of the consequences of being in Iraq, we as a people will be less likely to take action to pressure the government to bring aboput a solution to end the occupation in Iraq; we can still be here 5 years from now having the same discussion.

TRX, thanks for the link. I appreciate our congresswomen Carolyn Maloney being among the advocates favoring getting our troops our of Iraq. Supporting the troops doesn't mean leaving them in Iraq indefinitely to get hurt or killed, it means finding a reasonable way to begin bringing them home.

Offline duska3419

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2008, 08:40:12 PM »
Duska, alot of people care but they are still oblivious of the realities of what the troops actually go through.

My bad, Alex, I didn't know there were people who didn't know what actually is going on. It never occurred to me that there could be people who don't know someone over there. Personally, I have dealt with it very close to home. The psych evaluations our troops get before they're allowed back in to the 'civilian world' are retardedly inadequate (at least they were in 05, maybe they've changed since) and what ends up happening is loved ones end up looking after those who have just gotten home and can't cope. Maybe my response seemed bitter to many ppl, but when you are reluctant to go to work in the morning because you don't want to leave a grown man alone in his own house for fear of his state of mind, you tend to forget to care about how someone might take your opinion.

In short, my bad, considering the amount of troops we have over there, I never thought there could be people who haven't heard horror stories from loved ones stationed there. So I guess the irony is me being oblivious of oblivious people ...

I still don't believe a movie is going to get anyone to actually start a movement to change anything. But that is, again, just my opinion, and it's an incredibly bitter one.

Offline AlexNYC

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2008, 08:27:17 AM »
I hear you Duska, you've obviously been exposed to the repurcussions of our returning troops not getting adequate treatment first hand. The film may only be 1 piece of a 1,000 piece puzzle, but unfortunately the news of how the war in Iraq is effecting our troops is not front page news, often times it's not reported on at all. The films Stop Loss and Body of War are more for raising our consciences than entertainment. People often times prefer to be oblivious, it makes the world that they existent in seem safer. But you have a right to be bitter, those who defend our country deserve the all the respect and care we can provide them.

Offline FZ

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2008, 03:53:51 PM »
Body Of War is a documentary of Tomas Young, a young man who joined the military 2 days after 9/11 to go to Afghanistan to fight against those who attacked us. Instead he was sent into Iraq and was shot his first week there and became paralysed. This film documents the exaggerations and lies given by Bush and congress as reasons for going into Iraq, and shows the devastating impact the severe injury has had on Tomas Young physically and emotionally. The film is currently being shown at the IFC theater on Sixth Avenue and 4th Street in Greenich Village. Below is a link to the film with a trailer. I highly recommend everyone who cares about what our troops are going through to see this film.

http://www.bodyofwar.com/

I care about  the 'troops', that's why I and apparantly most Americans, have stayed away  from these  Leftist diatribe 'schlokumentaries'  like  the plague. Phil Donohue  being involved  is enough for me to know where  this  is headed.  The Daily News  recently  commented in an editorial  about how there is not ONE movie  that has shown the war effort, in Afghan or Iraq, in a positive  light. The  troops  have been shown as either  murderers  or dummies, yeah, these  films  support the troops. My nephew  who has had two  tours  in Iraq can't believe  how  the efforts are depicted  here. Shameful lies and distortions.

Rather  than exploiting those who are  fighting , who support  the war, which is majority. I prefer  to  see  real documentaries  about who we are fighting and  why...  Try...  http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 04:03:47 PM by FZ »

Offline duska3419

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2008, 05:48:04 PM »
isn't Justin Timberlake the lead role in Stop Loss?

Offline casicua

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2008, 12:53:11 PM »
I care about  the 'troops', that's why I and apparantly most Americans, have stayed away  from these  Leftist diatribe 'schlokumentaries'  like  the plague. Phil Donohue  being involved  is enough for me to know where  this  is headed.  The Daily News  recently  commented in an editorial  about how there is not ONE movie  that has shown the war effort, in Afghan or Iraq, in a positive  light. The  troops  have been shown as either  murderers  or dummies, yeah, these  films  support the troops. My nephew  who has had two  tours  in Iraq can't believe  how  the efforts are depicted  here. Shameful lies and distortions.

Rather  than exploiting those who are  fighting , who support  the war, which is majority. I prefer  to  see  real documentaries  about who we are fighting and  why...  Try...  http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/

So is that to say that EVERY movie that is against the war depicts Soldiers as Murderers or Dummies?
The extreme rightists are just as guilty of distorting the truth as the extreme leftists.
You denounce a film that is made to show the horrors of war and why we should think about the consequences before sending troops to die in war, yet you are promoting a film that basically promotes hate against a whole religion?
Both films, I'm sure are well in their intentions, but don't spew that "The left hates the troops" propaganda on here. It's despicable.

Offline TRX

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2008, 01:12:49 PM »


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050825/

there's fiction and then there is fact
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Offline AlexNYC

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2008, 08:44:05 PM »
FZ, you are recommending the documentary Obsession, which glorifies the widening of the war in Iraq to other muslim countries, yet you refer to the Body of War, a documentary that brings to light the effects of the Iraq War on our troops as a 'schlokumentary'. Normally I would try to reason with you the difference between seeing the world in only black & white extremes, but seeing your anti-islamic propaganda avatar, I would only be wasting my time and energy.

To more fair-minded individuals, I do encourage the viewing of the Body Of War film, or at least in educating ourselves on what our returning soldiers are going through when they finally return from combat.

Offline FZ

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2008, 01:13:18 AM »
isn't Justin Timberlake the lead role in Stop Loss?

LOL!!  I hav no idea, since  I don't plan on seeing the MTV/Starbucks version of Iraq Vet reality. Truth is  very few people  are seeing it.

Offline FZ

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2008, 01:18:05 AM »
So is that to say that EVERY movie that is against the war depicts Soldiers as Murderers or Dummies?
The extreme rightists are just as guilty of distorting the truth as the extreme leftists.
You denounce a film that is made to show the horrors of war and why we should think about the consequences before sending troops to die in war, yet you are promoting a film that basically promotes hate against a whole religion?
Both films, I'm sure are well in their intentions, but don't spew that "The left hates the troops" propaganda on here. It's despicable.

I'm promoting a film showing the reality of  the enemy. The  films coming  from Hollywierd,  have all shown them as dummies or murderers, it's  a fact. The Body Of War Film  is not well-intentioned and neither have been virtually all of these films. The Documentary  on the enemy is not against a whole religion, it is depciting the reality. What's  despicable  is not facing reality.

Offline casicua

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2008, 01:23:26 AM »
I'm promoting a film showing the reality of  the enemy. The  films coming  from Hollywierd,  have all shown them as dummies or murderers, it's  a fact. The Body Of War Film  is not well-intentioned and neither have been virtually all of these films. The Documentary  on the enemy is not against a whole religion, it is depciting the reality. What's  despicable  is not facing reality.
Oh, is it a fact? Would you care to prove said "fact"?
Thank you for telling us about the conspiracy behind the ill intentions of this film and every anti-war film. I agree that anyone who is against the war hates the troops. Most likely, they are undercover terrorists, like most of hollywood and the left.
You have yet again shown us the light!

Hey everyone, if you speak out against the war for any reason, you might as well be in bed with Osama bin laden. If you're Muslim, you're probably a terrorist. I'm spreading the good word, buddy :mrgreen:

Offline FZ

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2008, 01:25:05 AM »
FZ, you are recommending the documentary Obsession, which glorifies the widening of the war in Iraq to other muslim countries, yet you refer to the Body of War, a documentary that brings to light the effects of the Iraq War on our troops as a 'schlokumentary'. Normally I would try to reason with you the difference between seeing the world in only black & white extremes, but seeing your anti-islamic propaganda avatar, I would only be wasting my time and energy.

To more fair-minded individuals, I do encourage the viewing of the Body Of War film, or at least in educating ourselves on what our returning soldiers are going through when they finally return from combat.


So pointing out  the enemy is  'Anti-Islamic', can't reason unless someone accepts  reality, agreed.  No, the film I am advocating is  reality, and the soldiers who are returning from war, even with heavy injuries, are wanting to go back, cause  they realise this  reality.  Even in this so-called 'documnetary' concerned  with soldiers  and their injuries, they give 30 seconds  to the dad  of the sodlier, who supports the war.  Phil Donohue managed  to propagandise and use in this film a soldier who was still in the hospital, now  that's  propaganda.

Offline FZ

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2008, 01:27:40 AM »
Oh, is it a fact? Would you care to prove said "fact"?
Thank you for telling us about the conspiracy behind the ill intentions of this film and every anti-war film. I agree that anyone who is against the war hates the troops. Most likely, they are undercover terrorists, like most of hollywood and the left.
You have yet again shown us the light!

Hey everyone, if you speak out against the war for any reason, you might as well be in bed with Osama bin laden. If you're Muslim, you're probably a terrorist. I'm spreading the good word, buddy :mrgreen:

That's  not what I said, and you know it. Thank you for pointing out how open  the so-called  'anti-war' side  is to seeing reality.
http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/

Offline casicua

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2008, 01:30:52 AM »
That's  not what I said, and you know it. Thank you for pointing out how open  the so-called  'anti-war' side  is to seeing reality.

The  films coming  from Hollywierd,  have all shown them as dummies or murderers, it's  a fact.

The Body Of War Film  is not well-intentioned and neither have been virtually all of these films.

Yep, I am against the war, and I made all these quotes up. Reality is for suckers.

Offline casicua

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2008, 01:34:02 AM »
I love it, I ask you to prove a claimed "fact", and the only thing respond with is, "these people against the war don't want to see the truth"

 :mrgreen:

Offline FZ

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2008, 01:37:07 AM »
I love it, I ask you to prove a claimed "fact", and the only thing respond with is, "these people against the war don't want to see the truth"

 :mrgreen:

You've asked nothing, only pieced  together  quotes  from several posts. The movies coming from Hollywood about this conflict have been negative, showing soldiers as murderers or dummies. It's  a fact, even the Daily News see's  it.

Offline casicua

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2008, 01:40:57 AM »
You've asked nothing, only pieced  together  quotes  from several posts.
Oh, is it a fact? Would you care to prove said "fact"?


It's  a fact, even the Daily News see's  it.
The Daily News  recently  commented in an editorial about how there is not ONE movie  that has shown the war effort, in Afghan or Iraq, in a positive  light.
An Editorial from the paper is a fact?
I guess the all the Times Editorials must be all facts then too eh?

This is getting too easy... 8-)

Oh, and OP: http://www.bodyofwar.com/

Offline FZ

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2008, 01:41:33 AM »

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050825/

there's fiction and then there is fact

That's  a good movie, reminds  me of  Breaker Morant. It is  telling that today  the ACLU  forced  the Pentagon to release  'abuse'  through 'face-slapping'  of Afghan prisoners, this  has led to many unfounded  charges. So much for  'supporting' the Afghan part of the conflict.

Offline FZ

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2008, 01:44:38 AM »
An Editorial from the paper is a fact?
I guess the all the Times Editorials must be all facts then too eh?

This is getting too easy... 8-)

Oh, and OP: http://www.bodyofwar.com/

Some things  are facts, some are not, like not facing the reality of  an enemy and thinking movies  showing your side  as injured and losing morale  have no effect on the enemy. Evey movie  about this  war  is negative, not one, even in Afghanistan supporting the effort.

http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/

Offline neo11

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2008, 12:39:20 AM »
Here is some more reality:

Sole surviving son denied health benefits post-Iraq

FRESNO, Calif. - Forced to leave the combat zone after his two brothers died in the Iraq war, Army Spc. Jason Hubbard faced another battle once he returned home: The military cut off his family's health care, stopped his G.I. educational subsidies and wanted him to repay his sign-up bonus.

It wasn't until Hubbard petitioned his local congressman that he was able to restore some of his benefits.

Full article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080416/ap_on_re_us/brothers_in_arms;_ylt=ApPrRGgDJJElDs3RtR9D60FH2ocA

Offline AlexNYC

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2008, 07:59:04 AM »
A big part of the problem of our returning troops getting the proper care has less to do with beauracracy and more to do with the with the current administrations and the pentagon's MO turn out the injured ASAP from the VA hospitals, this is for both physical and emotional problems. Alot of the troops who require extended therapy and treatment are realeased from hospitals before they should be, and as a result cannot take care of themselves.

Offline FZ

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2008, 01:33:13 PM »
A big part of the problem of our returning troops getting the proper care has less to do with beauracracy and more to do with the with the current administrations and the pentagon's MO turn out the injured ASAP from the VA hospitals, this is for both physical and emotional problems. Alot of the troops who require extended therapy and treatment are realeased from hospitals before they should be, and as a result cannot take care of themselves.

No, the problem is  the Military  was not prepared  for war, after nearly a decade of cuts  at the VA, during the 1990's. Also, many  vets, refuse  treatment, due to many factors, including pride  and  seeing care for  'unseen'  wounds  as being 'weak.' Many are sent for care and  refuse it. As a matter of fact, all returning combat vets  have some form of  'post-traumatic'  stress, in every war.

Offline casicua

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2008, 03:47:25 PM »
Some things  are facts, some are not, like not facing the reality of  an enemy and thinking movies  showing your side  as injured and losing morale  have no effect on the enemy. Evey movie  about this  war  is negative, not one, even in Afghanistan supporting the effort.

Actually, these movies are being shown to illustrate the horrors of war, thereby making people think about the true consequences and fallout of sending their honorable defenders out to war.
There is enough pro-war fiction coming out of the government, so I think the great number of anti-war films balance it out. The difference is that the government controls the information it puts out, but anyone is free to make a film.

Of course movies about war are negative, there is nothing glorious or romantic about the act of war. It's a terrible, vile and sad thing that should be a last resort when all other options have been exhausted. That is the reality YOU need to face.

Offline odenhal

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2008, 03:54:55 PM »
There is enough pro-war fiction coming out of the government,
can you cite the so called pro-war fiction ?
Actually, these movies are being shown to illustrate the horrors of war, thereby making people think about the true consequences and fallout of sending their honorable defenders out to war

but many of these movies do not show "honorable defenders"
. That is the reality YOU need to face.
reality is different to many people.that is the reality YOU have to face
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 04:02:36 PM by odenhal »
you can not deny this gorgeosness, you can only hope to handle it

Offline casicua

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2008, 04:22:35 PM »
can you cite the so called pro-war fiction ?
The entire premise of the war- Weapons of Mass Destruction, and "Imminent Threat" that was largely emphasized by the Administration, which turned out to be completely wrong.

but many of these movies do not show "honorable defenders"
So you don't think the OP film about how someone fought and got paralyzed for his country portrays soldiers as honorable? Even "Stoploss", as Hollywood as it is, rests on the premise that it is the government mistreating the soldiers, not the soldiers being villified.

reality is different to many people.that is the reality YOU have to face
Barring a wierd metaphysical tangeant, reality, in this case, requires verifiable proof to back up your statements. That is what I asked of him, and just got a bunch of "you people don't see the truth" rambling accusations.

Offline odenhal

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2008, 04:42:11 PM »
The entire premise of the war- Weapons of Mass Destruction, and "Imminent Threat" that was largely emphasized by the Administration, which turned out to be completely wrong.
quite true...but being an ex soldier and having delt with military intelegence( i roll my eyes when i say that)the reports where thought to be credible at the time( of course the bush adminisration skeewed it to there advantage) and Sadaam played his part in the game too.
So you don't think the OP film about how someone fought and got paralyzed for his country portrays soldiers as honorable? Even "Stoploss", as Hollywood as it is, rests on the premise that it is the government mistreating the soldiers, not the soldiers being villified. 
as i said "many of these movies" not all .......there is a difference
Barring a wierd metaphysical tangeant, reality, in this case, requires verifiable proof to back up your statements. That is what I asked of him, and just got a bunch of "you people don't see the truth" rambling accusations.
reality is different to everyone ,your reality is not FZ's reality is not my reality

but FZ's post do not seem to get as mean spirited as those posting against him
you can not deny this gorgeosness, you can only hope to handle it

Offline casicua

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2008, 04:54:24 PM »
reality is different to everyone ,your reality is not FZ's reality is not my reality

but FZ's post do not seem to get as mean spirited as those posting against him
But that's the point I'm trying to make, if we're talking in terms of stating "hey this is reality because this is a fact", that's fine, prove it.
I think that implying that people who have a left-leaning political views are terrorist supporters and/or hate the American soldiers is pretty mean-spirited.

as i said "many of these movies" not all .......there is a difference
Agreed. I mis-responded.
My original response on this matter was in response to something stating that these movies portray the soldiers as Murderers and dummies. I still don't think there are any I know of that make the soldiers out as the bad guys. I feel like if anything, those films are portraying the government as the ones mishandling the soldiers, and the soldiers are portrayed as victims and heroes.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 05:03:17 PM by casicua »

Offline FZ

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2008, 12:39:04 AM »
But that's the point I'm trying to make, if we're talking in terms of stating "hey this is reality because this is a fact", that's fine, prove it.
I think that implying that people who have a left-leaning political views are terrorist supporters and/or hate the American soldiers is pretty mean-spirited.
Agreed. I mis-responded.
My original response on this matter was in response to something stating that these movies portray the soldiers as Murderers and dummies. I still don't think there are any I know of that make the soldiers out as the bad guys. I feel like if anything, those films are portraying the government as the ones mishandling the soldiers, and the soldiers are portrayed as victims and heroes.

You want 'mean spirited' read the Daily Kos  or Huffington. There is  no doubt, many far leftists, not 'left-leaning'  folks, do support the terrorists. There are far-right  Neo-Nazi people as well, but, they don't have the respectibility  that many on the far  left get in media.

The problem with movie and documentary showing this  war as  victims of  murderers by focusing on one incident or two, and refusing to see the reality of the enemy, is helping and being used  by he enemy, whatever the intent. The proof is  that  over two dozen large budget movies  have been made and they are all negative. I mean even if you oppose the Iraq side of  the war, at least  the Afghanistan side can be depicted, just once.

Offline FZ

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2008, 12:54:23 AM »
Actually, these movies are being shown to illustrate the horrors of war, thereby making people think about the true consequences and fallout of sending their honorable defenders out to war.
There is enough pro-war fiction coming out of the government, so I think the great number of anti-war films balance it out. The difference is that the government controls the information it puts out, but anyone is free to make a film.

Of course movies about war are negative, there is nothing glorious or romantic about the act of war. It's a terrible, vile and sad thing that should be a last resort when all other options have been exhausted. That is the reality YOU need to face.

Not true, every interview  I have read about these  movies and who makes them is that they  oppose  the war , even some go as far ascalling the Islamic terrorists as 'victims.' The victims  are usually other  Muslims, in those countries and the story  of the milions  who do support the removal of  Saddam and the Taliban and who want to live in relative  peace, just like any other  person, is not being told at all.

Peace at any cost  is  not peace, and usually  leads  to a more tragic  wider war. When you appease  and trade  with a Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Saddam, or even a tin horn dictator, it usually ends in a bigger tragedy. For decades  we did not have good enough intelligence  for many reasons, cutting back on CIA/Defense spending, which seemed logical , after the Soviets  fell.  Saddam continued  to bluff, as it turned out, but, if we did nothing after 9/11 to Saddam and he  was sanctionless, and arming  more terrorists top get our troops, we could be just as bogged  down in  Afghan and worse  cause Saddam was still there  and laughing as he was killing us.

I think we get  bogged  down sometimes, I do it too, on who is right or correct. The truth is  removing Saddam was correct, removing the Taliban was correct. For over decade everyone in the world wanted it done, then, when The US/UK and a few other nations do it, they get crucified. I think it's worng, especially, when all the bood that is being shed.  Saddam didn't  pay for  trips  like  this cause  he  wanted to be friends, he wanted to be sanctionless  to get  us after 9/11, he had murals  depicting himself as Xerxes, with  the planes  flying into the WTC, in his palace, that our troops found when they came in. Iran doesn't want an example  of  free people next door. I hate to see us, Americans, sniping at each other.

Offline casicua

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2008, 04:02:46 AM »
^ I haven't seen a speck of actual validation to the claims in the last two posts. It's "Oh, I've seen this" or, "Well the fact is that", without a single shred of proof to back any of it up. All of it is speculation and hearsay, an accusation that lefties support terrorists, and not a single link or shred of evidence to support the stated "facts".

Just link me one article to the Kos or Huffington that "supports terrorists". I bet you can't.

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2008, 05:22:20 PM »
^ I haven't seen a speck of actual validation to the claims in the last two posts. It's "Oh, I've seen this" or, "Well the fact is that", without a single shred of proof to back any of it up. All of it is speculation and hearsay, an accusation that lefties support terrorists, and not a single link or shred of evidence to support the stated "facts".

Just link me one article to the Kos or Huffington that "supports terrorists". I bet you can't.

 Facts  and links have  ben provided  in the past, most recently by someone , who disagreed with my position on the war, still, aknowledged  that there were polls  and stories  about US  being hated because  of the war. However, here is  a post from Daily Kos, link doesn't work anymore, but, this  was up for Sept, 19, 2007.... "This has been digging at me for, oh, about 4 years now. I have been hesitant to express this thought, in comments sections and in discussion with other people about the Iraq quagmire for fear of, I don’t know, being called mean. Or, un-American. Or something.

Supporting the troops essentially means supporting the illegal war. It seems that us anti-war types have been doing all sorts of mental and philisophical gymnastics to try and work around this. What has emerged is a sort of low impact, mealy-mouthed common wisdom that is palatable to everyone but is ultimately going to allow us to stay in Iraq for years to come.

Even Jim Webb’s shelved equal time legislation carries the scent of this erroneous wisdom.

Now, I don’t intend to demean Jim Webb. He is determined and impressive in his stance against the war and the crippling of our military. But this kind of legislation allows us to comfortably continue to support acts of aggression, as long as we give the troops a long enough break in between.

Until we have another draft, this is a volunteer armed services. I am not even beginning to count the numerous mercenaries that are involved in the occupation.  You signed up, you get to go to the desert and risk being shot at by brown skinned people who don’t believe the lies you’ve been told. A war of aggression is immoral, period. If you believe in God, you can damned well be sure you are going to hell for your participation in it. The only troop I support is the man or woman who refuses to be deployed so that they can make the middle east accessible to profiteers who don’t give a flying F about morality or democracy. Or a soldier’s life.

When Sunni tribes got paid off enough to stop shooting at GIs and instead shoot at Al-Qaeda (in reality themselves) it is funny how they suddenly became Freedom Fighters.  During WWII, French resistance fighters were also called terrorists and insurgents by their German occupiers. Can an anti-war proponent look at these Iraqi resistance fighters with the same admiration, even though they worship differently than us and when they eventually win are likely to install a distasteful (to Americans) theocratic tinged state. Can a person who doesn’t believe in violence support that people’s right to govern themselves, perhaps violently.

I am sorry but supporting the troops means supporting this illegal war....."

The Huffington Post and Daily Kos, two of the most popular 'left' sites out of  thousands like it, in print and media, routinely  call 'Hamas', and even Al Qeada, 'resistance' fighters, claiming  they are the equivalent  of the French Resistance to the Nazis, which the US troops  are  the Nazis. Of course, there have been Senators like Dick Durbin, who compared the  liberation fo Iraq from Saddam to the actions of Nazis, Soviets  and  Pol Pot...http://english.aljazeera.net/English/archive/archive?ArchiveId=13014  This was used by Al Jazeera, as has been the  some of the movies, like  'Redacted'  that took the incident of some troops, who were convicted, for raping a girl. Redacted was shown in theaters in Syria recently, this set off  a  mob after it's showing, to spill into streets and attack the US embassy/interest sections. Of course no women were allowed into  the theater. On and on. This is NOT 'Anti-War', this is 'Anti-American' and suicidal. The worldwide Al Qeada/Jihadist  movement  is  not just in Iraq  or Afghan. It's in Europe  and even our own City, you can see some of their work in what was once the WTC.

It's a shame that those who disagree with the current administration have to resort to supporting the enemy. If anything else, this undermines their entire argument. During the Cold War, Democrats and Republicans were able to disagree with each others on policy without losing sight that our common goal is to defeat Communism. A House divided cannot stand. If the West allows internal disagreement to overshadow our common goal of defeating totalitarian Islam, Western Civilisation will fall the same way as a divided China in the face of Japan during WW2.

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2008, 11:54:22 PM »
That is incredibly convenient that you can't find a link to that article. Do you at least remember if it was an editorial letter or an actual article?

Secondly, everybody I know who dislikes the administration supports our troops. What I find incredibly pathetic is certain people who disagree with the those against the war have to resort to calling us terrorist supporters or troop haters. I love my country. I love the honorable warriors who defend us, give their lives for us and protect us. I dislike my current administration.

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2008, 02:52:34 AM »
That is incredibly convenient that you can't find a link to that article. Do you at least remember if it was an editorial letter or an actual article?

Secondly, everybody I know who dislikes the administration supports our troops. What I find incredibly pathetic is certain people who disagree with the those against the war have to resort to calling us terrorist supporters or troop haters. I love my country. I love the honorable warriors who defend us, give their lives for us and protect us. I dislike my current administration.

I gave  you a link to one article and told you what date the other was posted, they removed  it, I can't help  it.

Second, I am sick of 'certain'  people  who  disagree with some of the leadership  of those  opposing this war of survival  for the nation, being labeled warmongers, nazis and worse. This is  not about you and me, the people  I  am pointing to are proven haters  of the way of life of this nation long before  Bush took power and this is  their latest ploy. Film after film depicting the troops as murderers, rapists, and not ONE  supporting the brave attempts and sacrfice  of the troops is not love of troops in my view. Another  'documentary' is coming out Abu Ghraib this  week. Yet, we have seen ZERO  about Al Qeada, the forces blowing up and killing our troops and Muslims  alike in Iraq, Afghanistan and around the world. I'm glad you love  your country, so do I, I find making constant attacks  on the mission and focusing on incidents  that are wrong, committed by some troops, as destructive and prolonging the war and given 'comfort' to the enemy. I dislike  what Clinton did  in  Bosnia, but, when the troops  were commited, I wasn't rushing into the street accusing them of genocide and the leaders of being evil monsters. If anything I see the hysteria coming from the so-called  'anti-war' side and their only dislike  focused  on the President and their fellow  Americans who voted for him.

Now, please  provide  me a link to the 'Pro-War'  movie, or even one that  shows  the terrorists, who happen to be Islamic. They are hard to find.

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2008, 01:49:27 PM »
Nobody on this board called you a war monger for supporting the Bush administration. If that is your only validation for calling the left troop haters or terrorists supporters, then I have a 4 year old nephew that you can get into a "he started it" match with. 

Anyone who thinks that government officials are going to war because they derive some pleasure from bloodshed is an idiot. The same goes vice-versa. Anyone who thinks that "the lefties" want troops to die, or support terrorism has no business claiming to be talking about real politics, and should stick to Bill O'Reilly and Oberman type sensationalist shock-jock rantings.

And I'm pretty sure that almost every fiction film portrays soldiers as American heroes, from Blackhawk Down to Saving Private Ryan. Fiction portraying Muslims as terrorists include the  extremely popular show such as 24, or the film "the Siege".

Documentaries portraying American troops positively as heroes include:
http://www.aboutbaghdad.com/
http://www.iamanamericansoldier.com/

Documentaries are supposed to be journalistic. Soldiers are NOT over there gung-ho, happy to be at war. They don't want to be there, they are there fulfilling their sworn duty to protect this country- which means they do as their government asks of them. Morale is not created by lies and propaganda about why we are there. The reason there are not so many "Pro-War" movies is because war is not a glorious or great thing. It is a necessity when all else fails.

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2008, 01:03:20 AM »
Nobody on this board called you a war monger for supporting the Bush administration. If that is your only validation for calling the left troop haters or terrorists supporters, then I have a 4 year old nephew that you can get into a "he started it" match with. 

Anyone who thinks that government officials are going to war because they derive some pleasure from bloodshed is an idiot. The same goes vice-versa. Anyone who thinks that "the lefties" want troops to die, or support terrorism has no business claiming to be talking about real politics, and should stick to Bill O'Reilly and Oberman type sensationalist shock-jock rantings.

And I'm pretty sure that almost every fiction film portrays soldiers as American heroes, from Blackhawk Down to Saving Private Ryan. Fiction portraying Muslims as terrorists include the  extremely popular show such as 24, or the film "the Siege".

Documentaries portraying American troops positively as heroes include:
http://www.aboutbaghdad.com/
http://www.iamanamericansoldier.com/

Documentaries are supposed to be journalistic. Soldiers are NOT over there gung-ho, happy to be at war. They don't want to be there, they are there fulfilling their sworn duty to protect this country- which means they do as their government asks of them. Morale is not created by lies and propaganda about why we are there. The reason there are not so many "Pro-War" movies is because war is not a glorious or great thing. It is a necessity when all else fails.

I never  said  anyone on this board did anything to me. We definately have a failure to communicate. When I talk about the extreme left that has done everything possible  to make the soldiers and armed  forces, including  the 24 year-old nephew look bad, as someone who is here, I'm gonna speak up and defend their mission. Contrary to what  you may believe, they are out ther eand in large numbers and making 'schlockumentaries'  and movies, that jepordize  the lives of the armed  forces.  Yes, most soldiers  are 'gung-ho', but, that doesn't mean they love war, they're not  insane. Thanks for the links, as for Saving Private Ryan, yes, WW 2 movies  almost always  show  the allied side  as being positive. I was talking about this war, not somalia, or a hundred  other battles.

Propaganda is  not a  dirty word, and can be used  in a myriad  of ways. The vast majority  of the movies made since  9/11 have been negative, and downright lies and propaganda  serving the enemy. Whether  that is the intent, is irrelevant.  The only movie I recall  showing the even 9/11, brave civilians in a positive  light is United 93.   

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Re: Body Of War
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2009, 04:13:56 PM »

Quite the article on the most grave of decisions.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/06/world/asia/06reconstruct.html

Quote
The decision represents a complicated evolution in Mr. Obama’s thinking. He began the process clearly skeptical of Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal’s request for 40,000 more troops, but the more he learned about the consequences of failure, and the more he narrowed the mission, the more he gravitated toward a robust if temporary buildup, guided in particular by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates.


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www.antiwar.com/

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