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Author Topic: High end homeless shelter  (Read 6840 times)

Offline Pinnochio

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2009, 12:06:36 PM »
I heard this on 1010WINS yesterday. One of the people staying there that they interviewed was there because of a fire - her building got burnt down - and she had nowhere else to stay.

Offline Harlan

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2009, 12:33:56 PM »
but isn't 2,700.00 a month more than many astorians take home pay,  for actually working .

Sure, that's about my take-home pay. But I'm not sure I understand your point. I'm not getting extensive social services from the contractor to turn my life around, and I'm renting an unfurnished apartment with a two-year lease. Apples and oranges, no?

Offline holyfrjole

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2009, 12:48:42 PM »
A better solution would have been for the city to turn it into temporary subsidized housing for displaced working families -- the family would pay for part of the rent, the city would subsidize, and the family would have X number of months to find permanent housing. A family with an income generated from working (as opposed to public assistance) should, in my opinion, have priority over this type of housing -- they're taxpayers. The city can offer them short term leases -- 3 months, 6 months -- so they can establish a record as a rent paying tenant and are responsible for the condition of the property when they vacate.

I'd rather see my tax dollars go to help working families who fall on tough times -- it can happen to anyone.


Offline Billz1981

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2009, 01:04:24 PM »
We don't. That's why I'm reserving judgment for now. This could be a scandal. Or it could be a good deal for the city. I have no way of knowing, because I don't know anything at all about the city's costs to get the same services elsewhere. All of you who are judging this project without knowledge are playing into the tabloid journalism. Don't you question anything you read?

Or are you just unhappy because poor people get something nice for a change?

Seriously, think about your motivations and why you're outraged. What aspect of the story outrages you?

Casicua stole my thunder by saying most of the things I'm about to say, but here goes anyhow.  I am outraged by the story because of good old fashioned American greed.  But not in the way you're thinking.  I'm not averse to the poor getting something nice for a change, I'm averse to them doing it on our dime.  We are in the midst of a severe economic downturn in this city.  We have been hit harder than the nation as a whole, because of our dependence on taxes from outsized bonuses and salaries from financial firms.

This is a time to hold on to as much of our money as possible, and to use the money we do spend as efficiently and effectively as possible.  We could use the money spent on luxurious digs for a few poor people and instead help even more poor people with basic living conditions.

This reminds me of a few years back when I did a fellowship in government with the city.  We visited a privately run shelter with all sorts of amenities.  A tea room, Japanese rock garden, art lessons, etc.  In Murray Hill, no less.  The director of the shelter told us that they have a 90 something percent retention rate.  People don't move out and become self sufficient, because it's so nice there.  Which means that the residents stay on the dole and keep out other people who might benefit from such a shelter.

Now, granted, this was a private run organization, not a city shelter.  But I remember making a similar argument; that the way they were running their shelter was in violation of donor trust.  Well, someone else in my group shot back with "What?  Are you saying the poor don't deserve art?"  It's not an issue of whether the poor deserve art (or granite countertops as in the case of the luxury homeless shelter.)  But with scant resources, especially these days, it is of greater good to help as many people as possible get on their feet than to provide "enriching" or "nice" experiences.

As to the liberation of Iraq, I don't see how that is analogous.  On one hand, we're talking about a federally funded war which is unpopular and controversial.  On the other, we're talking about a civic program.  I never said whether I was in favor of freeing Iraq, but even if I was, I don't see why I should have to hand in my "I am a taxpayer and I care about my taxes being used efficiently" card.

Offline Billz1981

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2009, 01:08:27 PM »


I'd rather see my tax dollars go to help working families who fall on tough times -- it can happen to anyone.



Times like these will only highlight the new order.  We are a nation of tax payers versus tax eaters.  I'd rather see my tax dollars help those who work or are willing to work, too.  We should stress personal responsibility and giving people the help they need to be off on their way.  Those that refuse should only be allowed to suckle off of our collective wealth for so long.  Of course, we can always tax the "rich" to solve our collective social ills, right?  But what happens when they grow frustrated with having to bear the greatest share and move out of the state?

Offline Harlan

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2009, 01:10:25 PM »
Bill, you're always very thoughtful...

Casicua stole my thunder by saying most of the things I'm about to say, but here goes anyhow.  I am outraged by the story because of good old fashioned American greed.  But not in the way you're thinking.  I'm not averse to the poor getting something nice for a change, I'm averse to them doing it on our dime.  We are in the midst of a severe economic downturn in this city.  We have been hit harder than the nation as a whole, because of our dependence on taxes from outsized bonuses and salaries from financial firms.

This is a time to hold on to as much of our money as possible, and to use the money we do spend as efficiently and effectively as possible.  We could use the money spent on luxurious digs for a few poor people and instead help even more poor people with basic living conditions.

I fully agree. But I have yet to see any evidence at all that this project is costing the city any more than equivalent services at other locations. It may be. Or the developer may have been so desperate to get any income at all that they agreed to rent the property to the city and the nonprofit for really cheap. We just don't know. Does anyone know how to find out?

Offline enigmacat

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2009, 01:39:27 PM »
per this story, at least some New York homeless are charged rent. So that leads to more questions .. are those housed at this shelter charged any rent, if so how much, and is that included in the 2700.


Here's an IBO (Independent Budget Office) report from 2008. An ambition person with a little time on their hands could do some calculations and maybe get some rough idea of how much the city spends on each homeless person for various services per month.

The IBO might also respond to phone calls and emails .. who knows...

[mod: added /url tag in first link.]

« Last Edit: June 05, 2009, 04:42:31 PM by merm »

Offline Billz1981

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2009, 01:51:11 PM »
per this story, at least some New York homeless are charged rent. So that leads to more questions .. are those housed at this shelter charged any rent, if so how much, and is that included in the 2700.


Here's an [url=http://www.ibo.nyc.ny.us/newsfax/insidethebudget157.pdf]IBO (Independent Budget Office) report from 2008
. An ambition person with a little time on their hands could do some calculations and maybe get some rough idea of how much the city spends on each homeless person for various services per month.

The IBO might also respond to phone calls and emails .. who knows...



We should all start a blog on NYC policy together.  Because outside of that context, such civic reporting would make us super nerds.  :-D

Offline enigmacat

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2009, 02:35:46 PM »
oh, man, i am really missing the edit option right now.

but writing a blog on policy could be fun ... and very nerdy :)


Offline enigmacat

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2009, 03:51:54 PM »
you mean charging rent for shelters?  when?

Offline holyfrjole

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2009, 04:16:59 PM »
Quote
The Bloomberg administration has stopped charging rent to homeless people who have income and live in city shelters, temporarily suspending a state-mandated program that has been marked by mismanagement and the threat of a lawsuit.

From the NY Times on 5/21/09

Offline enigmacat

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2009, 04:36:25 PM »
found it

http://fort-greene.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/22/city-rent-rule-suspended/?scp=6&sq=homeless%20rent&st=cse

that's interesting. the article says that the rule was temporarily suspended. but given its lack of popularity i wonder if there's any serious intention to bring it back.

Offline FZ

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Re: High end homeless shelter
« Reply #43 on: August 06, 2009, 02:23:17 PM »
While I'm all for a shelter system to support those who need help, I think this move is pretty tone deaf on the part of DHS officials: http://www.nydailynews.com/real_estate/2009/06/04/2009-06-04_city_turns_upscale_building_into_homeless_shelter.html

What about middle class people who would be glad to rent those units at similar rates?

The middle class always  gets  the screw, IMO, more  when democrats  are in control fo social programs, but, the others aren't much better in the end.

The problem is that we lump every deranged, alcoholic, druggie as 'the homeless', with people  who legitimately are homeless.

In the days  before  our culture was driven insane by the media,courts and academia, anyone who would stretch out in front  of a home, business or sidewalk in their own urine or feces would be sent to the mental  ward. Today, these  folks  have been declared  'homeless'  and allowed  to destroy neighborhoods and woe be unto to anyone  who dares  tell them to go away. They have a 'right' to hang out in front of a  business  all day, drink, even though drinking is 'illegal' on the street for me and you.

In my once relatively quiet, at least for New York City,Astoria neighborhood, the 'do-gooders' from the city in our society, have rented  across the street from my home  to folks  who 'hang around' the neighborhood all day drinking up there or a couple of blocks away at the supermarket. Calls to police and letters from tax payers and homeowners  seem to temporarily  shoo away the problem, but, they return when the heat is  off.

No doubt the majority  are not from this neighborhood or even here legally, but, that doesn't matter on the Federal level, certainly now more than ever, that would be 'racist.'  :wink:   So, what  was once  illegal is now legal and the tax payers, homeowners and business  have to once again lock up and watch out. A sentiment  from a local  storeowner  caught my attention yesterday as we talked this over, he said the only way  to get rid of them is shoot them.  I'm sure he was 'joking', but, it is getting frustrating and dangerous.  This is a peaceful  man who I have seen for years, but, even he is fed up. Naturally, shooting them is  not an option, it's  'illegal', maybe, if it gets real bad  again, we'll get another Guliani. But, as it stands, once again, the mice are at play, you gotta keep an eye out, after all, you wouldn't want to be 'mean'  and 'racist', just another sap paying for bums to make  someone  feel better who is either  in the Bahamas, gated  community or some high rise, who made a law siding with street people.   


 

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