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Author Topic: Obama and his economic team get failing marks from economists  (Read 10284 times)

Offline essen

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Re: Obama and his economic team get failing marks from economists
« Reply #75 on: March 27, 2009, 07:31:43 PM »
Pounding people over the head and screaming "It's a crisis" serves only the entrenched bureaucracy and their handlers. Ask conservatives who is to blame and they will tell you "Trial Lawyers" ask liberals who is to blame and they will say "Big Pharma" or "Insurance Companies". In reality, it is the politicians on their payroll who are to blame.

This worries me greatly when it's politicians that make all the rules. Seriously... as a card carrying member of the Misanthropic Party.. well.
I've been looking through congressional bills in the works. I found a few healthcare-based ones that are very long, and I don't have the patience to look through them right now:

American Health Security Act of 2009 - "To provide for health care for every American and to control the cost and enhance the quality of the health care system." - http://frwebgate5.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/TEXTgate.cgi?WAISdocID=195362419836+8+1+0&WAISaction=retrieve

Healthy Americans Act - "To provide affordable, guaranteed private health coverage that will make Americans healthier and can never be taken away." http://frwebgate5.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/TEXTgate.cgi?WAISdocID=195362419836+20+1+0&WAISaction=retrieve

Health Coverage, Affordability, Responsibility, and Equity Act of 2009
- "To expand the number of individuals and families with health insurance coverage, and for other purposes." - http://frwebgate5.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/TEXTgate.cgi?WAISdocID=195362419836+29+1+0&WAISaction=retrieve

National Health Insurance Act - "To provide a program of national health insurance, and for other purposes." - http://frwebgate5.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/TEXTgate.cgi?WAISdocID=195362419836+37+1+0&WAISaction=retrieve

As far as I can tell, these are all still active. The number of congressional bills completely boggles my mind - I watch these people talk and can't believe any of them are actually reading this stuff.

Offline edava

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Re: Obama and his economic team get failing marks from economists
« Reply #76 on: March 27, 2009, 08:06:26 PM »
I'm looking forward to the day I can shop around for health insurance and not have it be tied to my employer... maybe after Obama leaves office.  :cry:

Offline TRX

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FtN Re: Obama and his team
« Reply #77 on: April 11, 2009, 04:54:18 PM »

Good HolyDays all.


For Sunday news, I dont too often get to mention Face the Nation.
They appear to have counterprogramming with foreign news not getting deserved attention.
 :?


http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/ftn/main3460.shtml


ARTURO SARUKHAN
Mexican Ambassador to the United States


Life, Liberty, Happiness (pursuit of) and pasta

Offline TRX

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Re: Obama and his team
« Reply #78 on: April 12, 2009, 06:52:36 PM »
Life, Liberty, Happiness (pursuit of) and pasta

Offline TRX

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earned it Re: Obama and team
« Reply #79 on: April 12, 2009, 07:06:14 PM »

A bit older news, a bit repetitive, but in light of 'current events'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li7SRUX2Y7Q
Life, Liberty, Happiness (pursuit of) and pasta

Offline Sweeper

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Re: Obama and his economic team get failing marks from economists
« Reply #80 on: June 02, 2009, 08:31:59 AM »
Can we call it Socialism yet?

Offline casicua

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Re: Obama and his economic team get failing marks from economists
« Reply #81 on: June 02, 2009, 09:16:44 AM »
Sure, then we can call the Bush administration fascists. All liberals can be labeled as communists, and we can call all conservatives totalitarians. We can call libertarians anarchists, and then slap a couple more propaganda labels on some political viewpoints.

Offline Sweeper

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Re: Obama and his economic team get failing marks from economists
« Reply #82 on: June 02, 2009, 10:13:17 AM »
Sure, then we can call the Bush administration fascists. All liberals can be labeled as communists, and we can call all conservatives totalitarians. We can call libertarians anarchists, and then slap a couple more propaganda labels on some political viewpoints.

I am sensing some sarcasm here.  OK, I am more than happy to move away from labels. But is anyone comfortable with the current heading of our economic system? I am not usually so doom and gloom, but these debt and deficit figures are mind blowing. And the government now majority owners of GM, among other financial and industrial giants, is unprecedented in this country.

How are we going to pay this off?
http://business.theatlantic.com/2009/05/us_debt_668621_per_household.php

Offline Harlan

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Re: Obama and his economic team get failing marks from economists
« Reply #83 on: June 02, 2009, 11:51:10 AM »
I am sensing some sarcasm here.  OK, I am more than happy to move away from labels. But is anyone comfortable with the current heading of our economic system? I am not usually so doom and gloom, but these debt and deficit figures are mind blowing. And the government now majority owners of GM, among other financial and industrial giants, is unprecedented in this country.

How are we going to pay this off?
http://business.theatlantic.com/2009/05/us_debt_668621_per_household.php

I'm relatively OK with things. There weren't many great alternatives. The stimulus package was to prevent 10% unemployment from spiraling into 20% unemployment. Most people would rather pay a few thousand dollars than to have a much higher risk losing all of their income (aside from safety net programs) for a year or two! And the government now owns a majority of GM, a tiny Michigan-based company, worth maybe $1 billion, with little prospect of becoming an industrial giant any time soon. So?

Statistics mean many things. The number in the Atlantic piece includes household debt, including mortgages. And mean debt doesn't mean that someone with median income has to pay that amount off, it means that someone with mean income (which is a lot higher) has to pay that amount off.

Besides, unless the Feds implement a 5-Year-Plan For the American Economy, it's not really socialism, it's just a public-private partnership. Like, say, the Army. Or Medicare. Or the Port Authority of NY&NJ. (Except that the government wants out of GM as soon as practical.)

Offline Sweeper

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Re: Obama and his economic team get failing marks from economists
« Reply #84 on: June 02, 2009, 12:57:16 PM »
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Statistics mean many things. The number in the Atlantic piece includes household debt, including mortgages. And mean debt doesn't mean that someone with median income has to pay that amount off, it means that someone with mean income (which is a lot higher) has to pay that amount off.

That's true, but the numbers are further broken down between personal debt and public debt. With the public debt equalling $546,668. And that is just federal debt. It is just not sustainable.

About that tiny midwest manufacturing facility:
http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2009/06/02/the-gm-bankruptcy-the-costs-of-paying-the-workers/

It sure does have a lot of employees to be running a $1bn company. And the fact that my labor is going to be paying part of a $50bn payout, for a failure of a business plans, shows that the government as a whole just doesn't get it.

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(Except that the government wants out of GM as soon as practical.)

I'll believe that only when I see it.

Offline Harlan

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Re: Obama and his economic team get failing marks from economists
« Reply #85 on: June 02, 2009, 01:17:33 PM »
That's true, but the numbers are further broken down between personal debt and public debt. With the public debt equalling $546,668. And that is just federal debt. It is just not sustainable.

I agree. And the administration seems to be saying the same thing too. If you conservatives would let us liberals raise taxes, the deficit would be at 0 as soon as the economy is back growing again!  :lol:

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It sure does have a lot of employees to be running a $1bn company. And the fact that my labor is going to be paying part of a $50bn payout, for a failure of a business plans, shows that the government as a whole just doesn't get it.

Maybe. I'm no fan of GM's management, nor of the UAW for that matter, but supporting that little company's workers for a couple of years may result in a less catastrophic effect to the economy as a whole than letting the whole company collapse. You might feel differently if you lived in the midwest. It's certainly a political decision, though. Not in the sense of politics, but in the sense that it's an exception to the normal rules that we're making simply because people want it. California's going bankrupt -- you want Michigan to start defaulting on its debts too? Also, if GM had collapsed a few years ago, when the economy is growing, there would be a lot less value to supporting it during bankruptcy. Now, letting it fail catastrophically would have been a Hummer on the camel's back.

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I'll believe that only when I see it.

(referring to the government wanting out of GM.) Well, do you honestly think Congress would let the administration hold on to GM, even if it wanted to? I'm not sure what motivation you think the administration has in wanting to run a crappy auto company. Obama was elected on a platform of health care, education, and energy reform, not on running car companies. This is a distraction from his real goals. I'd also like to point out the Chrysler is out of bankruptcy already, just as promised.

Offline Sweeper

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Re: Obama and his economic team get failing marks from economists
« Reply #86 on: June 02, 2009, 05:38:06 PM »
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I agree. And the administration seems to be saying the same thing too. If you conservatives would let us liberals raise taxes, the deficit would be at 0 as soon as the economy is back growing again! 

I don't mean to whine, but I don't have a spare $546,668. How much of my taxes are you going to raise? And you better pass it by the Governor because he has been eyeing me lately. (not literally)

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Well, do you honestly think Congress would let the administration hold on to GM, even if it wanted to? I'm not sure what motivation you think the administration has in wanting to run a crappy auto company.

That is precisely what I fear because they get a say in corporate cronyism. I would expect them to pressure the administration as to which plants can be closed, who get dealerships, who has the right to sell corporate bonds, etc etc.

Offline Harlan

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Re: Obama and his economic team get failing marks from economists
« Reply #87 on: June 02, 2009, 07:09:58 PM »
I don't mean to whine, but I don't have a spare $546,668.

You don't?? Well, stop posting to Astorians and get to work, my friend! :)

A better way to think about it may be that the national debt is approaching 100% of annual GDP. Which means that to pay it all back, the entire economy would have to go towards debt service for a year. Or 5% of the entire economy for 20 years (more like 15, with typical inflation rates). It's not a great situation, and I'm no fan of deficits in boom times (why were we running a deficit from 2003-2007, again??), but it's not the end of the world. Everybody agrees that the deficit needs to go towards 0 rapidly as the economy picks up again, or else there'll be problems with inflation (as the Fed increases interest rates to get people to buy Treasury bills that seem less likely to be paid back). I think we all hope that that happens. (Both the growing economy and the balanced budgets.)


Offline Sweeper

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Re: Obama and his economic team get failing marks from economists
« Reply #88 on: August 26, 2009, 08:38:13 AM »
Finally!

Obama and his economic team get some praise for their domestic agenda;
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/08/25/cuba.castro.us.criticism/index.html?eref=ib_topstories
And if anyone knows how to run an economy it is Fidel Castro.


 

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